Jets
 

Lets say that I held a PPL, multi-engine certificate and Instrument rating. How would I move on from prop aircraft to jet aircraft? (Not professional flying)

Quite simple really. Write a rather fat cheque for a machine that weighs less than 5700kgs and promptly produce an even bigger cheque to the insurance company of your choice.

Weight doesn't come into it I'm afraid - Jets require a type rating whatever the size.

The answer depends to a degree whether you are JAA or FAA.

I believe a jet requires a type rating under either regime, though under FAA a TR is mandatory only if above 12500lb.

A TR is not a big deal; it's just a load of training on type which you obviously need anyway. I am informed (not having bought a jet lately ;) ) that while one can fly a jet on a PPL (sort of workable in the USA where you can go VFR below 18,000ft) it's hard to find anybody who will teach you the TR if you don't have an IR and something like 500-800hrs TT, but you have that already. Last time I asked (CJ1) it was PPL/IR and 800hrs but that was N-reg.

Insurance requirement can be a big issue; in fact the great majority of light jets are not flown by the owner.

The U.S. "Flying" magazine is a good source of info on upmarket flying like this, and IFR matters generally.

Pay £2,0000 to 'Where Eagles Share' and a lump per month, and a 1/20th share of 2 Jet Provosts is yours, Just need 100 hrs PIC

There is obviously conversion required, and there are further restrictions on taking a passenger.

Unfortunately there is not much you can do with a JP under the current AD:(

Not much you can do with a JP anyway, apart from a little jolly :)

Just for the avoidance of doubt, as there is confusing and conflicting stuff being said, FAA land....

(2) does not mention weight

As slim says - there is no weight mentioned. That's because ALL jets need a TR, the 12,500lb minimum limit only being applicable to pistons and turboprops.

The insurance company will probably insist on training from a recognised provider such as Flight Safety or Simcom before they'll even touch you.

Yes, all jets need a TR under JAA.

And Flightsafety probably won't touch you untill you have at least 1000 hours or ATP.:bored: (not forgetting IR) They may touch you if you have bags of cash of course, but they will still expect you to fly to ATP standards.

However, you can of course be Second in Command. It gets a bit more complex for scheduled ops, where you need an FAA SIC type rating to be SIC but this is fairly straight forward and not so expensive.

So money doesn't talk that much? With a bag of money they MAY touch you and STILL expect you to fly to ATP standards? With a bag of money I should only have to look at the cockpit for 15 minutes.

By the way, state the meaning of 'jet' as defined by the FAA.

I don't have a PPL yet. But I was wondering which rules I would have to abide by? As I will obtain an FAA license but living in a British Overseas Territory, so...

You will have to follow the rules of the state of registry of the aircraft. (i.e. FARs if it is N-Reg)


My impression of doing a type rating (which I have only had described to me by folks who have done it) is that you are required to know everything about the systems and flying environment for the aircraft. As such, a lot of the ATPL knowledge is required but focused on your particular aircraft rather than a generalised aircraft. For a jet that you use for transport (vs a JP or such like) The type rating class and test have to be based around IFR operations, high altitudes, RVSM, turbine engines, pressurisation systems, etc.


Based on some initial investigation into getting a type rating it does appear basically to be - 1 - Select aircraft you are going to operate, 2 - Select training organisation that supports your chosen aircraft and regulator, 3- Agree training using either an off the shelf or custom developed programme (which may include foundation courses), 4 - Pay the money.


As to what is a jet in FAA language, I think it is exactly what the word implies. More precisely, I believe a jet is an aircraft with its thrust delivered by a turbine generating thrust through the compressor section (or ducted fan) and the exhaust (i.e. a turbo jet or turbo fan) but not something where the turbine turns an un-ducted set of blades (i.e. a turbo prop). Ramjets and Manned Rockets appear to fall into the experimental aircraft category (which makes sense with them being experimental until Virgin Galactic gets its AOC)

Turbojet - An aircraft having a jet engine in which the energy of the jet operates a turbine which in turn operates the air compressor. (Source - FAA FAR/AIM)

British overseas dependencies either issue their own licenses or validate overseas ones. If you get an FAA licence then the you will need a Turks and Caicos validation to operate aircraft of that register. If they're anything like the Cayman CAA they validate your licence once you have the type rating, and if you require annual recurrency training, the validation only lasts a year from one training date to the next.

And yes - the type rating school will be testing you to ATP standards, no matter what licence you hold.

CM,
[pedant mode on]
although we generally would agree that turbojet = jet and hence the AIM definition of turbojet answers nano404's implicit question, he actually asked what is a jet and the AIM uses jet in its definition, a tautology, hence not answering the question. [pedant mode off]

mm_flynn

My answer's correct - it's the question that was incorrectly worded ;)

(See quote 14 CFR 61 Re: requirement for type rating).

Meanwhile - back to the day (night!) job. Time to vector some more "Jets"!

Thanks
 

Oh Ok, Thanks for definitions and responses, I'm wondering, does a person absolutely required to be trained by a Certified Flight Instructor to obtain a PPL (FAA) (Not that i was planning on doing otherwise;))


Also, I saw somewhere that if you're in the U.S. on a Visitors Visa (I think i have a B-2 as it is visitors on pleasure) you can go to school without obtaining a student's visa (M-1 for flight school I believe) If your studying for a short period of time (Less than 18hrs a week).

If this is still in effect, then I will be allowed to train at most I'd risk (Don't want to get deported for pushing the limit) 17 hours a week, and I, Aviator Extraordinaire (To be) Will be able to get my PPL training minimum time (35hrs) in two weeks and about 3 days including check-ride and written exam. Right?

nano404,

Aviation is a world full of rules. Most of which actually are there for a good reason. Less time spent parsing the exact detail of how to skirt around the edges and more time spent learning why they are there and how to fly will get you to your goal.

From where you are (apparently looking at starting PPL) to Jet type rating and operating your own jet (or share) is a lot of study, work, money and a big capital investment. More important, it is a mind shift from a conceptual dream to a rigourous planning and operating methodology where you always plan for problems and their solutions so you don't have problems.


Focus on the here and now, get a proper visa for flight training, get your PPL from a proper organisation with CFIs see if you like it, build some experience, check you have $50-100k spare (+ the cost of buying/operating your chosen jet), go get IR, Multi and type ratings, have fun!

OK, Though I'm not recommended to do it the quick and dirty way :*, I guess it all makes sense, except:

Uhh who said anything about me paying for it:p;)

Are there any benefits of getting an ATPL/CPL first besides the afore mentioned "you will be trained like an ATP" ?

NOTE: Any details on the Kenya Airways 738 crash?

You wish! Add 2 more zeros and you're closer the mark ;)

Ok - time out.

Come back and start asking again when you've got a multi-engined CPL/IR and about 400 hours of good quality cross country flying / instrument flying (not pi$$ing about in the local area on a nice day). That might get you in the RHS of a Corporate Jet (it did me).

You want a command type rating - get a thousand hours of the above, or 1500 hours and an ATP (which you can't hold until 1500 hours anyway).

Chilli always here to slap you into reality ;). I dont want an ATPL, though 1000 hours is do-able as I may be able to borrow aircraft for a reduced cost or free, depends though.

As for the cost of the jet, I'm a billionaire man! ( At least 'till I wake up in the morning). On a serious note though, I'll get one, whether owned or partial with a family member.