I don't think I'm making assumptions -- I'm aware that there are microlights that can carry 30st or so. I'm just not sure how to begin a conversation with a microlighting instructor: ``Hi. How much do you weigh?'' :)

I'm certainly not anti-microlight. I often see them fly over my house (near Watford, North London), but when I've looked whistfully upwards, my wife's reaction has been ``Don't even think about it!'' I'm aware that the safety record for MLs isn't really any different from that of light aircraft, but my wife doesn't know that.

If there are microlight schools in the North London/Herts area, that are like to have big machines and small instructors, I'd be more than happy to give it a go, if I can overcome the wifely disapproval.

Wfely dissapproval. Let me put it this way, I have heard the following phrases within the last 12 months

"You love that plane more than me"
"You are having an affair, only she has wings"
"You'd love me more if I had wings"

Trust me, whatever you fly, get used to it

Nothing wrong with that…. Because of work commitments I can only fly on Saturday’s – WX permitting - and so do a lot of other people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mad_bear (Post 2871438)

I could certainly afford one hour's flying every 2-3 weeks for the foreseeable future, but that means it would be several years at least before I got to PPL qualifying standard, if I ever did; and being the driven, goal-directed kind of person I am, that's a hard nut to swallow.

---

Tell me about it !!!

Success in your professional life DOESN'T mean success in your flying life.
One of the things I'm trying to learn is to relax and chill out and just enjoy the flying.
Determination to do well (as you do at work) could make you worry too much and screw up your flying - this could be what's causing your “perceived” problems with your straight & level - and then of course you're kicking yourself and thinking you can't make the grade (which makes it 10 times worse!!) - Been there...Done that - and for the same self critical reasons!!!!

DO listen to WhirlyBird - she and a few others have been trying to get me to relax for month's – and it may finally be working.

I don't have the same financial restraints as you (no kids) but have gone through a long period of being convinced I can't "get" various bits of this flying lark and it's going to take me forever.

Would I give up and call it quits ?? - quite simply… I wouldn't know how to stop now - no matter how often I could fly in the future.

Do it.
Do it anyhow you can and as often as you can - life is too short to miss the exhilaration of being "up there". :ok:

Now I've got the totally over the top, emotional and enthusiastic reply out of the way I'll put my practical hat on.......

Take a look at this....

http://www.oldsarumflyingclub.co.uk/...42_pricing.asp

Mods - I'm not advertising - Just trying to show the guy what some clubs are arranging these days.

Look at the 20th share option - Get 25 hours instruction and if it takes you longer...you'll have money over to pay for the additional hours you need and you'll end up owning a 1/20th share in an aircraft which is cheap to run.

It is classed as a micolight but looks like a small aircraft - so no microlight suits or freezing cold weather around your ears - your wife may approve - and she doesn't have to know it's part of the microlight family of aircraft :O .

After you've got your licence (or 12 months) it will cost you £300 per year to pay your monthly costs which leaves you £700 (or 23 hours) of flying.

Now, I know I'm over simplifying - so the rest of you PPruners DON'T jump down my throat - but this is a very realistic option for people with very little budget.

Check out clubs in your area and you may find a similar deal.

Another practical tip - Buy your books on Amazon. I managed to get "NEW" for approx £7 a book less than my club or any of the pilot internet stores. Yes... I had to pay a healthy amount of postage but it still worked out a lot cheaper - Gives you even more money to spend on flying.

Good luck and I hope you stick with it. :)

On reflection, I disagree too!

To echo mad girl, "tell me about it". I've been there too, really. If you're the sort of person for whom things have come fairly easily, who's usually been successful, and whose usual reaction to difficulty is to grit your teeth and redouble your efforts, flying can come as a real shock, because that sort of effort doesn't work. I found it out, and with hindsight, it was a far more useful learning experience than all my previous successes. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found a way to get that across to my high-achieving, driven students who are having similar problems, and finding that the battering-ram-technique doesn't work when it comes to flying, while chilling out does. Seems we all have to learn it for ourselves. :{

Wow! Have we met? This certainly sounds like me. My normal reaction when things don't go as planned is to curse roundly, thump something, and try again with gritted teeth. While this approach has served me well on many occasions, I've found that it usually doesn't work for things that really matter. I wouldn't be approaching flying this way if it weren't for my budgetary constraints. The problem is that it's difficult to chill out when you're burning money this rapidly and not seeming to make any progress, if you see what I mean.

I am certainly willing to investigate forms of flying that allow more airtime per pound spent.

I'd be very happy to fly something like this, if I could fit in it, and still have room for an intructor and fuel. But with a maximum load of about 30st (if I understand correctly), I'd be looking for an instructor in the 8st region, or very frequent fuel stops, I think. I know I can't fit in a Cessna 152, and my understanding is that most microlight aircraft are smaller than that. Or am I misunderstanding something? I'd be very happy to be misunderstanding, because this is the (only) kind of flying I could probably afford on a long-term basis.

mad bear

I, too, have read pprune stories of people taking off and landing after 2 hours or so (funnily enough, never met anybody at the club that has done it !)

I started flying less than 7 months ago with a 5 hour package, and by the time I got to the 3rd hour, I thought I had wasted my money - thought I wouldn't even fly the remaining 2.
This is not for me - What a waste of money - I'll never make it and so on.

As a matter of fact, each lesson became less of a struggle and now I am at 40 hours (10 of which solo) preparing for the skills test.

Difficulties make success much more enjoyable. I would sincerely give it a little more time before you call it a day.

If in doubt... ask the people who know!!! Ring Old Sarum flying club on 01722 322525 and ask them the weight, fuel & size issues of the C42 - then you'd know for sure.

I've only been in it once and was told that if I had both myself and my partner (combined about 23 stone) we could carry a full fuel load which would give us a range of 1000km with no problem.
The instructor who was flying it was a good 6ft + and he still had room above his head. I don't know if the seats are adjustable but I know I would have needed at least a 4 inch thick cushion behind me to bring me close enough to get my feet on the rudders but I'm only a short ar:mad: e.

The other nice thing about it is that it can fly with a SEP(A) licenced instructor so you're not limited to purely microlight instructors.

I don't think any club would object to pairing you up with their lightest instructor....and there are 8 -9 stone instructors around - we've got a couple of "littlens" at my club.

Get back up there as soon as possible - you know you want to!!! :ok:

PS Lots of deep breaths and try not to let your performance matter so much - it works!! Says she...still trying to do this herself!!!!

I do that too...or I used to. But I've found that I have to split my life into two parts, ordinary life and flying. For the flying part, I refuse to think about how much I'm spending; it takes what it takes, and when I run out of money I stop, at least for a while. It was the only way I stopped being so driven and stressed that I was my own worst enemy when I was learning. Now, as an instructor, I try to teach my high-achieving students the same thing, but it's still hard. Yes, deep breathing helps, so does consciously giving yourself a shake to relax, and similar tricks, but ultimately it needs a fundamental re-assessment of your attitude to flying and life and success and failure. And it's a very useful lesson when you can learn it - I speak from (painful) personal experience.

Got to agree. I fly for this reason alone.
At work I am stressed, at home is the same, mainly as the phone never stops for work.
When I am flying, the phone is turned off, no-one is bugging me, and I recognise that I must devote my grey matter to the event in hand, I don't fancy becoming another statistic!

One thing to consider is this. We are all driven by money, some more than others, but it plays its part in all of us. If you are at 100' on final and start worrying about how much the landing is going to cost then you shouldn't be there! Switch off totally and concentrate on the job in hand, and relax! Look out of the window, look down at the millions of people who have never experienced the view you are enjoying. Think about the millions that cannot take a day trip from Northern England to France. Enjoy it for it's solitude and a good chance to clear the overworked brain, just don't drop the ball!

It might sound easy to say, and indeed is, but the harder you work the harder it gets. Chill out, relax, don't look at it as work, look at it as something that stimulates the mind, but can be in itself a relaxing experience. Whatever your favourite relaxation technique, remember there is a time and a place for everything, and as for worrying about the cost, that place is firmly on the ground!!!

Like you I try to plan for the "what next" and budget accordingly but the truth of the matter is that none of us knows what's next.

I started flying 20 years ago and have gone for years on end without getting airborne and, conversely, have spent years when I've hardly been on the ground.

I couldn't have foreseen the way that flying, and my flying in particular, would go.

The main point is that I've enjoyed every second of being airborne whether it be as pax, crew, P u/t, P1, whatever.

I've recently done a tailwheel conversion and I found it quite difficult, not the flying but the taking-off, landing and taxying - all of which are fairly important. I tried hard and wouldn't let it beat me and it did beat me every single time; I chilled out, had fun, enjoyed myself and bingo, it worked.

Enjoy today, enjoy the flight, we are very, very priveleged people to be able to view the world from the perspective that we do; enjoy it and don't worry about the next flight or next year or where it's all going. One of the great things about flying and about learning something new is that it makes us concentrate on the here and now and that's where life is.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, which I appreciate very much :)

Just as an after thought, either take a look at the "spare seats" thread at the top of the page, or get to know pilots at your flying club who might take you up for half an hour, you might be surprised.

This will show you what is acheivable after the ppl, the types to fly and places to go. You never know, you might "get a go" from the right hand seat, and I have learnt more from some old pilots doing this than some instructors have taught me (See spotty 19 year old with 250 hours)

This will hopefully show you what is available post ppl, and might turn on the light at the end of the tunnell.

For me, I was having the money dilemma a couple of weeks ago, can I justify it sort of thing. So I decided to go on a nav exercise. I planned it, worked it all out and flew it. I got to see some fantastic scenery, went to a nice little airfield that I know, had a coffee and bacon sarnie with some friends I met there and then flew back again. I re-started my interest and I have now booked a week off work to finish my ppl next month. Try it, if there is no-one, ask the instructor if you can do a little nav ex to a nice little field nearby, and explain why. It might just give you the kick start you need, and whatever you do, good luck and happy landings!!!

Have to agree with everyone about this - the aircraft/money problem becomes far less when you research it.

When talking about flying with airline pilots, many of them go misty-eyed remembering their Pitts S1C or C152 or Thruster or whatever - they WANT to fly GA, but a lot of them hardly have the time. Yes, they fly for a living, but they willingly pay good money to fly something without an autopilot or glass cockpit simply for the fun of it. That's how much it means, and that's what makes me wonder whether I'd be better off staying at PPL level and buying an old Pitts!

There are a lot of different microlights out there, and empty weights and seat limits vary.

However, it's quite easy to check. If you go here you'll find the list of microlight types approved for use in a flying school, and for each one a data sheet (TADS).

For example, go to the third page and look at the data sheet for the GT450 (a lovely aeroplane to fly BTW) - on page 1 we have:

Maximum take-off weight (MTOW): 450kg
Typical empty weight: 217kg
Limit per seat: 110kg
Maximum fuel consumption: 13kg per hour

So, a quick back of envelope sum tells us that two 17½ stone people, plus an hour's fuel can go flying together.


As for questions about weight and height - microlight instructors are very aware of this - it's an important issue to them. Just ask if at your height and weight they can teach you or not, nobody will be offended.

G

When to give up
 

How about if after 36 hours, you're still flying circuits your instructor tells you are 'pathetic'. Is that code for 'Give up'?

Relevant info - also in my 40s, money is tight (hence fortnightly lessons) and I chose to learn in a tailwheel a/c. Finished first area solo with a very ordinary landing and tried a session of circuits to fix things up, but felt worse after the lesson than before. :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Seriously, should I take a break for a few months, save up, then go back to weekly?

Or just remain feet firmly on the ground?

[QUOTE=i.dingbat;2884139]How about if after 36 hours, you're still flying circuits your instructor tells you are 'pathetic'. Is that code for 'Give up'?

Relevant info - also in my 40s, money is tight (hence fortnightly lessons) and I chose to learn in a tailwheel a/c. QUOTE]

Nothing like learning the hard way !!!!

I would imagine that you are simply trying too hard. Maybe have a couple of weeks away from it, then go and do something else like a nav trip, or some general handling, then as you land back it will all fall into place.

Dingbat,

Find a new instructor - preferably a good one! :uhoh:

I've flown with two instructors so far, one took me through aeros and low level flying on my trial flight. He ended up writing off a club a/c (without me in it) and afterwards being fired from an F/O position for gross incompetence.

My second instructor was my best friend (still is, just doesn't train me anymore) and possibly overestimated my abilities, recovering from (very) unusual attitudes on my second lesson. I did get to land on all lessons, which made up for any uncertainties on my part. Still disconcerting though.

My point is that instructors are human and make mistakes, misjudgements, have attitudes and may not be suited for instructing sometimes. Some people respond well to insults as a training technique, many don't. It's unprofessional to insult someone, especially while they're doing a complicated (for the student) task like flying circuits. You're not paying to be insulted, you're paying to learn and receive critical appraisal of your current skills. If a skill is taking longer then usual to perfect, feedback is nessecary, insults and jibes play no part.

New instructor, post haste. As an aside, ask yourself what you know, what you're sure about. What's left needs to be worked on.

If your instructor tells you that you are pathetic, it's a good sign that you have a lousy instructor. (Unless you've just joined the Army Air Corps, in which case it means he likes you.)

There are plenty more out there.

Unless you are on good banter terms with your instructor I would take that as a pretty negative statement from your instructor - not at all constructive. You shouldn't have to be concerned if it is code for 'give up', if the instructor is of any merit then they will also be able to have an honest chat with you.

As for time to give up - well, I'll restate what has been said so often before. It is tough and hard at times, I almost felt like quitting on my PPL(A) at around 35hrs - I started to have a crisis of confidence in my ability in all areas (circuits, landing, R/T, nav...) but pushed on through and qualified last year. It *does* all fit together eventually.

I'm now a single-hours rotary student and still get tense and think too hard about what I'm trying to do - the secret really is to just relax and it will fall into place.

Keep at it! It is worth it in the end :ok:

The trick as an instructor (i have trained as a driving istructor) is to critisise effectively. This is a black art and no doubt. You need to be able to pan your student, but not go so far as to knock what little confidence they have for a six!

What you are looking for is someone that can say also praise the good bits.

The guy I have now has a lot more confidence in my flying than I do, as him sending me solo yesterday when I didn't really want to is a testiment to. This is because I have had all the confidence kicked out of me earlier in my training, and am not that self assured at the best of times. His methods worked and I now feel 200% better about solo flying, the praise he heaped upon me was great, but was also tempered with "you screwed that up nicely" and "see, I told you, take that as a lesson learned and move on"

That is the sort of thing you want, tell you what you are doing wrong, to a point let you make the mistake in the first place, without compromising safety, to see if you can recognise it for what it is and put it right.

And a good de-brief afterwards, covering the good and bad bits, but always ending on a high note, and an overview of what you will do next time are a must.

As for calling you pathetic, someone started down that track with me once on a course, and got both sides of my tongue and was left in no doubt what I thought of his teaching methods. He was attempting to knock the stuffing out of me for a more than beligerant reason only came across a brick wall, and when asked the question "that is diabolical, who the hell taught you to do that?" got the reply " your companys other effing instructor, when you can all sing the off the same sheet have a pop, until then belt up whist you still can!!" I stopped the course there and then, and refused to pay his invoice as well. Take note, your money is valuable to you, don't waste it on some numpty that has a bad idea of motivation!!

dingbat,

Get another instructor, immediately! You don't need someone sapping your confidence. Been there, and I know. :{ No, it DOESN'T mean you should give up, it means your instructor should give up instructing.

If you give up people will think you're gay. So stick with it, get mad, punch your instructor and then get even. :=

Try some training in california - spend a couple of weeks, and i'm sure that with continuity of flying every day you'll advance really quickly - and have a great time

Implication being what exactly? That gay people are quitters?

I'd say get another instructor before you give up - otherwise you may beat yourself up for giving up on a lifelong dream.

Good luck mate.

Last week you said that you had another lesson booked in a week's time. No pressure but time is up: How did it go? If you haven't had the lesson yet, the secret is to trim the thing (use finger tip pressure to sense the load on controls) and make sure that you look out, not in.

Best of Luck

PM:)

Thanks for asking; I think it went a lot better than the previous ones. At least the instructor didn't look green with motion sickness by the end of it. I was able to either fly in a reasonably straight line, or climb and descend, but not both at the same time. That is, whenever I try to climb or descend, I end up facing the wrong direction.

According to my instructor it is typical to be at this point after five hours' flying -- inasmuch as it is possible to judge -- so I'm not beating myself up about not being Biggles right now.

But this doesn't change the fundamental problem, which is that I can't really afford to fly :( To get to PPL test-passing standard before the money I have negotiated from the domestic finance committee runs out, I need to make more than `typical' progress. I had hoped to be able to make good any deficiency in natural talent by working harder. But, as other people have pointed out, it doesn't seem to be possible to get better at flying by working harder at it. It seems that the only way to learn is to keep stumping up the hourly fees, and not worry how much it is costing. Ouch.

I doubt I will ever be able to fly more than an hour a month on a long term basis, given the number of other demands there are on my earnings. And if I try to learn to fly on an hour a month, well, I'm not sure that is even possible.

So I still have a difficult decision to make: (i) fly as often as I can afford on a long-term basis, and accept that I will probably never get any good, or fly very often, or (ii) fly once or twice a week until my money runs out, whether I get to test-passing standard or (most likely) I don't. Tricky.

I have investigated flying microlights, but my height and weight make that difficult. While I might, with harsh dieting, just squeeze under the maximum seat weight in a C42, I've phoned all the clubs within an hour-or-so's drive of where I live, and none seem very keen on having me as a student (I'm nearly 6'5" tall, and three feet wide at the shoulders). This is fair enough, I guess -- who would want to teach somebody to fly in an aircraft that was loaded to within 20kg or so of MTOW, and only carrying an hour's fuel? So it seems that I'm stuck with flying expensive planes, which compounds the problem :(

Oh well, that's life.

Thanks to everybody for the advice and support.

Mad Bear
Let me tell you a story, are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin

In 1991 or 15 years ago, whichever you like, my parents bought me a trial lesson. I immediately, and totally fell in love with aviation, and joined the club on the spot. I had another hour the week after and was looking forwards to training as a pilot.

2 days later the boss calls us all in the office, "times are hard" "end of the summner season" and so-on, and we all had our 40 hour week cut to about 25 on a good week. There were other pulls on my finances at that time, although being 21 they more of the "birds and booze" variety. 12 months later I lost the job, and spent 6 months on the dole, followed by 5 years in the employment wilderness trying different careers, some paid good money, but I spent all that repaying debts I run up when on the dole.

Flying never really left me, it just got shoved to the back of my brain. I met a girl, we got married, had a daughter, all the usual pulls on the money we all suffer from. Fast forward to 2001, and I decided I wanted a hobby. After nearly collapsing at the local golf club when they told me about the membership fee I thought "that's half a ppl". It then struck me, that's what I love, go for it!

So I did, I joined a club in 2002 and started training. Took me ages to get my head around stalling and circuits but got there in the end. Move to 2003 Then one night, after having a word with a neighbour about his noisy dog, I awoke to find my motor on fire outside the house. The financial manager of our house declared that we had to move, in hindsight a sensible thing to do really. Bought a new house (bigger of course) moved in the day after my first solo. Bigger house means more money, guess what suffered?

Moving to today, our daughter is no longer in a nursery that cosrs half a wage packet every month, and I can afford some more training. Having retired from being a DJ, when I can sell my equipment it will pay off the credit card bill I am currently running up. I will finish my training this time, it has taken 15 years from start to finish, and post ppl, save for a few hours flying freinds and family about to showcase my new found skills, the money will dry up again. I know it will, but occasionally there will be something in the pot for an hour here and there.

The moral of this story, don't beat yourself up. As for "affording" flying, none of us can afford it, justifying it is a different matter. It doesn't matter how long it takes. For me it has been a journey of 15 years since I first climbed into a GA plane, but I will get there. And if I never fly again post ppl (which I hope wll not happen) I will have acheived something in life that doesn't involve earning money. If for no other reason than it is one of life's great challenges, go for it, as and when you can afford it. When the money runs out, just stop. Start again when you have some more money, you will be surprised how much you will remember!

Whatever you do, good luck!!

cessna l plate,

Great story, great post. :ok: Should be required reading for every impoverished PPL student who's wondering what to do next.

Mad Bear

I can relate to your situation all too easily. I was given a flying lesson for my 40th birthday, I thought it was fantastic and started buying the Thom books with a view to going further. For all the restrictive reasons you described earlier I didn't resume my lessons until I was 52 and got my licence at 53.

I found that learning the theory and doing the exams and flying with an instructor most (but not all) weekends was a really enjoyable hobby in itself. If I had my time over again I would have done that rather younger and not worried about whether it actually led to a licence.

In fact there's little doubt that £6000 would get you a licence. That's roughly what it cost me and my spatial perception is rubbish.

I don't know where you are based but I would try to get involved with a club and more mature instructors who will be more relaxed and better equipped than the hour builders to analyse your flying and explain technique in ways you can easily understand. In a club scene you can make friends and get good right hand seat time to add to your lessons and that will help you ask good questions of your instructor as well as adding to the fun at minimal cost. (Custom says you buy the bacon sarnies and pay the landing fees;) )

Just enjoy what flying you can get and relax until you get older freer and more in control of your wallet.

In my case (now 59), I have 300 hours P1 110 hours dual which got me PPL/IMC/night and complex, all of which were great fun and stand me in good stead when flying my newly acquired Archer 2:) :)

Just thought I'd bump this up a bit. We have all moved a week nearer our goals, and meeting our maker so let's have an update mad bear

Whilst you are at it, where do you fly from? I will hopefully and with all the ducks in a row (you can tell I work for an american company) pass the skills test later this month or early next month. Post ppl I think it might be nice for those of us that are currently able, to meet with mad bear and take him up for half an hour to just show him what is available to work towards. I am sure we are all very familiar with the local training area, but I for one would like to take MB out for a bit so he can gain the required motivation.

What do you all think, and MB, tell us where you are!

Hi

OK, I live in Kings Langley, which is on the remote fringes of North London, and about a 15 minute drive from Elstree, which is where I fly from.

I've had another hour in the air since my last update, making six in total :) I feel I did a lot better last time. I managed to taxi, take off (in perfect weather), fly around a bit, and get within about 20 seconds of landing before having to give up the controls to the instructor. So I feel I'm doing a lot better, although it still feels as if the plane is flying me, rather than the other way around.

The money problem is still a problem, however. As I said earlier, I have a fixed budget for training, and when it's gone, I won't be able to afford to fly more than once a month, if that. I have enough money in the `training kitty' to pay for 40 hours (total) of Cessna 172+instructor time. If I don't get reasonably competent by that time, I'm not sure that one hour a month thereafter will allow me to make much progress towards getting to PPL standard.

I appreciate that thinking this way leads to ruin but, being the kind of person I am, it's hard not to.

Best wishes
Bear

OK MB
You are about 6 hours in, around about the point that aviation becomes addictive. Sounds like you had a good lesson the other day, and as for giving the landing to the instructor, I still do that at 40 hours on the odd occassion!
So ask yourself this, and be honest to yourself, no point in lying to yourself, "do I enjoy it", "is it a challenge"?
If you answer yes to either of these, then you are an addict, welcome to the club!!

I fully understand your financial situation (see my earlier thread). To begin with you have negotiated 40 hours flying to get your licence. A couple of reality checks here for you, legal MINIMUM for qualification is 45 hours JAR. 32 hours NPPL, but the syllabus is the same anyway. The reality is that most people take about 60 hours to qualify. Just working to minimums, you have budgeted too short to start with by 5 hours.

So after the 40 you can only fly once a month. So ??? I take it that you are quite happy in your chosen career, and have no ambition to become a boeing driver? If that is the case, then why worry about it, if you enjoy it then do it, and if you can only do it once a month then do it that way. None of us know what the future holds, and you could win the lottery next weekend. Fancy giving it up just incase you don't??

Just accept this for what it is, a great hobby, surrounded by great people, and one of lifes great acheivements, and do what you can when you can.

I promise you this, keep flying and I will come to Elstree after I qualify to take you up for an hour, just to show you that it isn't that hard, and what the end result looks like, however if someone else would like to do this sooner then all hands please help this poor tortured soul!

why dont you switch to a 152, cheaper to fly so more hours for your book. I happen to know that Elstree have a superb 152 fully equipped that is cheaper to fly. I sold them my 152!

My friend just got a job with BA flying Dash. He spent the first 100hrs hanging onto the aircraft by the tailplane he was so far behind it. You are no different in this respect.

I think you are pushing yourself to hard and just making things more diificult for yourself. Chill out....

Got to agree with Bose here.

This has already been said here many times, but it is worth re-iterating. Chill out!!!!!!

In life, as a whole, the best teacher we have is experience. Some we take out ourselves, some we glean from others, but experience is it. Nothing else will teach anybody anything.

I appreciate that you are one of those people that works hard to acheive goals, and that is admirable, although I have to say that in my opinion, any fool can work hard, the clever guy works smart!! But that aside, experience is the only teacher we ever have in life be it ours or someone else's.

That is why you need to chill out, you cannot work a bit harder at this game. If you push harder at work for your goal then you will acheive it, but remember this, at work you are on terra firma and it wont kill you if you disrespect it! What you need to gain is experience and lots of it. As you have said the last lesson went better than the one before, the next one will go better again, and so this will carry on, that is why we have an hours limit in aviation, so that you not only have the skills at the end of the course, you also have a reasonable level of experience. Don't forget that a ppl is a licence to learn though.

Remember learning to drive?? After about 3 hours you could probably drive in a straight line and turn corners and make gear changes, but you had to think about it didn't you. Did you always drift left or right a little when putting the indicator on?? I know you did, all learners do, bet you don't do it now though, and change gear without even giving it a concious thought. That is because you have experience as a driver. Don't believe me?, try driving a left hand drive car for a couple of days, you will have to teach yourself to drive the wrong way round and your brain will hurt for a couple of hours whilst you get used to it, and that is what is happening in your aviating career.

There is nothing you can do about it, accept that you have to chill out, and it will fall into place a lot quicker. It is surprising how much more you enjoy it when you aren't under pressure you know!

And whatever else, along with other here, take our advice and don't quit. You will forever kick yourself if you do, trust me!

Sure. This is my problem in a nutshell. If I were to `chill out' properly, I would just fly once a month, which I can afford to do without too much hardship, and spend the money I budgeted for training on a family holiday in the Bahamas or something. I know my family would think this a better use of funds. I probably wouldn't ever get to PPL standard, because at my age I just forget stuff too easily if I don't do it often enough.

What's bothering me is whether I would be happy flying, knowing that I probably wouldn't ever be basically competent at it. Knowing the kind of person I am, I have a sneaking suspicion that the answer is no. Unfortunately. This is nobody's problem but my own, of course.

As for cost-saving measures, I fly a 172 because it's the smallest thing I can fly. I am too tall, wide, and heavy for anything smaller. I've done my research, and that's just the way it seems to be, unfortunately.

We all seem to be agreed here: if you want to fly and enjoy it, there is no point in fretting about progress at what is, after all, a fairly early stage in the training (which never stops, of course...).
My story might not ring bells throughout, but I hope parts of it might help.
I started to learn to fly in a glider and was HOPELESS, truly abysmally cack-handed. I didn't stop though, because I was probably too dim to think about it, but kept on, spending the pocket money, enjoying some occasional, temporary progress until I realised I didn't want to be anywhere else. The people I met obviously inhabited some superior world to my dull existence, but they seemed to want me to move there too. I still wasn't solo after %*$$$! launches but quite enjoyed having someone in the back to talk to and keep me safe....
One evening in the pub (which I couldn't afford either but that was part of the buddy system too) I learned from the guys that I was actually not far off solo, but seemingly lacked the motivation to be consistent. I didn't make much of an extra effort, because as has been said, you can't, but something changed and soon after I was sent off solo. From there, equally slowly, I progressed to other things. It all crept up insidiously and once addicted, I rebuilt my life around it. At one point when thing were particularly tough, domestically and it seemed I couldn't afford to keep my house, a change in the job yielded more money. Other problems arrived but somehow there was always a way to keep flying.
Of course your situation is unique and with family to consider you may feel guilty about the money spent on your 'hobby'. I'm sure you don't begrudge your family members their hobbies and they want you to be happy, so don't beat yourself up about holdays in the Bahamas. The point I'm trying to make, ineptly, is that even if you can't afford to fly as much as you want (who can?), if you are getting pleasure you will find a way. I'm not totally convinced by the 'you make your own luck' philosophy, nor that of Micawber, despite what I've written, but I do believe that if you can connect with the community prevalent in various areas of aviation, whether it's with microlights or gliders or the flight school at Elstree, any passion you feel will reap rewards. You don't have to have a specific goal, although much of what you read in the aviation comics might lead you to think otherwise. I certainly didn't ('I shall just keep on and if I make any progress, that's a bonus' was my mantra for a long time), but if you can look back on the last lesson, or any of them, with a degree of pleasure, there's your answer. Carry on while you can, for as long as you can. If you have to stop, you'll have logged experience that can always form the basis for a reprise in the future. Why think so negatively, though? You are flying now and although you've earmarked a finite amount, who knows what might change? Without knowing or wanting to know all your personal circumstances I suspect that there may be some wiggle room when you need it. Enjoy the journey and try not to worry so much. That's what makes it more enjoyable...
I'm sorry for the long post, much of which has just reiterated what others have said, more eloquently. I was moved to post again because I don't want you to give up on yourself. I wish I could say it better.

I have to agree with everyone on this.

I had dificulties in the early days, but the main cause was my limited budget. It meant I could fly only once or twice a month, and that isn't good enough. It meant that I took longer than I would have liked to get solo, but later it got even worse - getting close to the NFT and GFT I had to spend more than I budgeted for - the NFT practice and NFT itself cost me 2 months flying.

I got into a downward spiral - I wasn't progressing, I had long spells when I didn't fly and I seemed to be going backwards when I compared myself to other students. In fact there were whole months when I didn't want to go to the airfield at all.

In the end, I summoned up the courage to get a bank loan for funding the last 15 hours or so and piled in the hours until it was completed. I have never regretted doing that, although I do sometimes regret the divorce that my flying caused.

Mad Bear
At the risk of boring everyone by comparing flying to driving again, (I am more of an expert at that than flying) I understand what you mean. You do need to carry out a task often to be relatively competent at it.

That said, when you go off to the Bahamas for a 2 week holiday, when you get back in your car, are you as good as before you went away? Thought not, it takes a few minutes to re-adjust again, get your eye in if you like. Same with flying, again the more you do it the better you will be, but it doesn't mean that you are pathetic at it.

Affordability.
None of us, not a single one of us can afford to fly. Some might have more financial resources available to enable aviation, but no-one can actually afford it when the yardstick is other commitments like holidays. At our level of aviation, for once in your life, leave the brain out of the equation, and let your heart steer you. We all fall into two camps on this topic, those who admit that the heart rules the mind, and those that don't admit it!

Age
What the hell has that to do with the price of wet fish exactly? I can promise you the day you stop learning is the day they nail the lid down and pat your face with a shovel! They key part of flying and the number one skill is that of decision making, and making a good, safe one quickly. That skill has now spilled into my work life, and although there are other circumstances, I have gone from being a driver to being in charge of the whole operation, as I can be trusted to make quick decisions that work. All due to flying.

At the risk of sounding nasty, I don't mean to be, but you need a good swift kick in the rear. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and attempting to justify it to yourself, just get on and do it. Life is too short and too full of regrets to add another one!

Now a little help with the financial services comittee.
Yes, you could go to the Bahamas for a holiday this year on the money a ppl will cost. Now ask the kids, do they want a 2 week holiday somewhere exotic, or do they want their old man to get a ppl and have days, yes days, out in Northern France, Disneyland Paris, Scotland, Parts of near Europe etc. Would they like to be able to go to Spain (or wherever) and fly off for the day? No brainer really!! My good example is the wifes Uncle who lives 2 miles from Shoreham. We couldn't go to a party there this weekend due to other commitments, as it takes about 6 hours to drive, in each direction. It would take 1h40m by PA28. We could have gone, had a good day and come home again same day. She might not like flying, but she is sold on the part of the idea!

Now get down to Elstree, stop feeling sorry for yourself and get a ppl!:ok:

Very true! But aren't people different. I had no goal when I started to fly (f/w) other than having something to look forward to at the end of every working week. I knew nothing about aviation. I didn't know or care how long it would take me to get a PPL, and I didn't even know if I ever would....mad bear, I'm older than you, and I had the same beliefs and prejudices as many in our ageist society, back then. I certainly had no plans to ever fly helicopters.

Somehow, things changed, I changed, circumstances changed, and not all that many years later (in the greater scheme of things) I seem to have ended up as a fulltime helicopter instructor. I sometimes wonder just how it all happened. :confused: I'm not saying I didn't help the process along, plan it, work hard, but somehow life seemed to run me rather than me it quite often.

As for the age thing, I'll fly, and instruct, as long as I can pass medicals and want to and feel safe to. When I eventually get beyond that point....well, Cranfield has rather a nice sounding M Sc course on human factors in aviation or something similar. That's always been a main interest of mine, and I'm qualified to do it. Maybe I'll go for a Ph D in that area....when I'm about 95. Why not? Age has little to do with anything really, that much I've found out.

The point I'm making, rather longwindedly, is....fly if you want to, and don't worry too much about where it all leads, and when. There is such a thing as being too organised.