Great point - I look forward to meeting people from pprune in years to come when I can say I have a license.

Gingernut - I too work in the health service - in IT. What area are you in?

Happyeater - great stuff mate ! Hope it goes well for you, and please do feel free to post your progress too !

HOUR 2 should be here Saturday afternoon ! :O

Sorry
 

Well, there isn't going to be an hour 2 I am afraid fellow pruners. I contacted the airfirled to check the flight, and it was no longer on - whether it was because of bad weather or something else I dont know. Never really got a decent explanation (no planes were grounded and were still flying throughout the day).

As it turns out (for one reason or another, which I dont think I should go into here) I have changed flynig school. I have to find a school, with an environment, that is perfect for me, and unfortunately that was not the case. I am still flying from Liverpool so all guesses as to where I am.

On one note I must say that my decision was nothing personal about anyone in particular, I had nothing but praise for the level of instruction.

My next lesson is Sunday, and I have secured more cash, so during August where I have a month off work, my diary will have more hours on it than I thought.

First of many problems along the way, taken firmly making me even more determined !

Until then.

Maz.

As I fly (now & again) at Liverpool, tell us where you are then!!

The hangar next door, Keenair ! I made the mistake of not checking them out before I started. Silly me. :ok:

Hi Mazzy,

Nice idea. After a couple years of not flying, I am finally able to begin my PPL in earnest (loooooong overdue!!!) and am just so ecstatic to be taking that 1st step as you have done.

As has already been said, I think this thread will be helpful to those who are wanting to fly, or even for those high-timers who may be wondering what it's like now to be doing a PPL.

I too am planning to keep a diary of my PPL progress (not here though) and definitely plan to be coming back to PPRuNe with all my questions. 99% of people on here are so lovely and willing to help with anything you may want to know or be having trouble with.

Keep up the good work, I'll be interested to see how hour 2 goes. Hopefully I start my actual flying this week, as well as groundschool; we'll be learning at the same time (can compare notes even) :)

And as for the Trevor Thom series, I second the assessment, they are very good. For the person that was looking for them, you can sometimes find recent ones on eBay for a reasonable price.

My AU2c ;)

Sky

Hi Mazzy,

The reason why you may not have flown whilst other people were out enjoying themselves with the aeroplanes was probably because you are on your first few lessons.

It is extremely important that you have excellent weather including a distinct horizon so you have something out of the window to base all of your maneouvers around.

Straight and Level requires an nose attitude against the horizon, Turns require an attitude against a horizon etc...

It won't be until later on that you will start to fly with a non-distinct horizon.

During our summer days over here in the UK we do have some nice weather, including some nice spouts of high pressure systems but usually that means haze or an temperature inversion giving no horizon available.

Personally I believe your previous school may have had your best interests at heart and plenty of other schools would probably have taken you flying with undesirable weather. However I am not implying that is why you changed schools, please forgive me if you think I'm saying that.

I'm not sure what the weather was like up in the Liverpool area on Saturday so I may be totally mistaken.

All the best for the course!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

Hi Charlie Z

Thanks for your post - I never really thought of it like that, and I do agree that this may have been in their best interest, however, an explanation of that fact from the flying school would have been nice :O

That isn't the reason why I am changing schools, it is more a collection of other small things, but I dont want to go into them here, as that isn't the purpose of this thread - I would like to concentrate on the flying and progress etc.

Thanks

Maz

Hello to one and all. I'm after advice and saw Ravenair mentioned quite regularly in this forum, so if no one minds, I'll drop my question here. I don't see any harm though after reading the terms and conditions of forum usage.

I'm hoping to start my PPL in August after doing a fair bit of research around the flying schools in the North- West. They're all around 45 mins from me, but after doing a trial flight at Ravenair, I feel the most comfortable here.

However, I expect it will probably take me close to a year to complete due to work committments etc. I see Ravenair have a very good package on offer for the full PPL, but just have trouble parting with that much money upfront before starting my training.

Can anyone offer me some advice.

Dont ever ever ever pay for anything up front. Ever, not even a little bit.

I can see the potential dangers of doing so - but if you pay a fair bit up front then you do get a significant discount. If you want to pay up front - maybe use a credit card to get insurance.

Maz

The theory is that an organisation that wants you to pay up front is desperate for cash and vastly more likely to go bust than one which is happy for you to pay on landing because their business is in good shape.

Having read many stories of flying schools going bust over the years and losing their students' up front money I would also advise never to pay in advance.

GTW

Yes agreed - do all schools offer a discount ? Even if you are just hiring for 10 hours or so ? I have never been forced into giving money up front - I can imagine if it is "strongly" advised by the school then maybe there are some possibilities of things going wrong, like you correctly stated.

Maz

No.

And those that do should only be offering a discount that works out at about 6% APR. If they're offering a larger discount than that it means that they're trying to borrow money from you for more than they ought to be able to borrow from the bank ... which means that they've tried borrowing from the bank and been turned down.

Does any student pilot really want to lend money to an organisation that the banks think is too dodgy?

Thanks very much for all your wise advice. And to think I was about to send a cheque for that much. What a mistake it could have been.

I think I might do some more research before jumping in. Again, many thanks for your advice. It certainly makes a difference having a site like this where we can share opinions.

Mazzy, I will follow your progress with great interest as I learnt to fly at L'pool too. Enjoy your training. I took myself off to a lovely grass strip instead several years ago.
Peeking Duck. Clare Pollard left before I did. Great guy.

Mazzy, great idea to put your experiences on here. I'd thought about the same myself, so I hope you don't mind if I butt in on yours.

As a 10 hour student, now flogging around the circuit, I can't emphasise enough the importance of shopping around flying schools and doing some trial flights.

Check out the briefing (and briefing facilities), instructor - technical knowledge and instructing capabilities, and the aircraft. Not all flying schools have knackered planes and, whilst individual rapport is one thing, some instructors are definitely technically better than others. I tried several schools close to home, before ending up with a well known one (albeit a good 1/2 to 3/4 hour drive from home) at Wycombe. There I found good, very experienced instructors, very well maintained aircraft (even a nice livery for posing!) and excellent club facilities, where total flying costs are less than my local clubs'.

As a lawyer, I would never advise anyone to pay up-front - even for a heafty discount. Flying in the UK is often abortive - you may be forced (rightly) to go some time between lessons. Money spent now alway has a higher cost than money spent later - think about the real value and risk involved in that discount. Almost everyone at my club pays as they fly - after the lesson - for actual chocks-chocks time. Moreover, time spent student solo is charged at the solo rate.

And what about Thom v. Pratt. Well, I've only sat the air law so far (would have been embarassing to fail!) but I actually used both books. Thom goes into the detail, but Pratt is far more readable. Use both (if you can find them/afford it). I'm convinced the differences in emphasis, presentation and thus, improved understanding, can only make you a better and safer aviator.

I'm curious Hampshire Hog, where do you fly from?

Howzabouts we leave this thread to Mazzy so people who actually want to read about the thread title can do so without having to trawl through ten or so pages of not so relevent stuff?

Just a thought - i would like to be able to see a thread written just about someone doing their PPL rather than what everyone thinks to the idea. Why not delete all irrelevent posts.

BTW - i think its a fab idea! :ok:

I will leave this one to develop itself! I realise it will probably take a while to finish this diary, i.e. it wont be a daily update. I dont mind people discussing other things, just as long as I can keep the diary going it aint a problem :ok:

Hour 2
 

After arriving at the flying school at 11:30 I am now settled after filling out the membership form. I have met my new instructor, who again is a real nice guy, and before I know it we are sat in the lounge having a one on one chat. Something which I hadn’t previously been able to have. He explains everything to me and asks me about my other flying experiences. This is great as it is a more personal approach for me and I feel al lot more comfortable in a ‘family’ atmosphere.

We done a basic walk around the aircraft (only basic for now as the more detailed one which should take over an hour is done on days when flying cant be done). Went over mostly the aircraft surfaces to make sure of any obvious defects like another aircraft hitting it. Also, I got the aircraft checklist – something which I hadn’t seen yet. Upon getting in the aircraft, we went through the basic checks, I would read out the item in the list, then he would take me through what it meant, whilst actually carrying out the check at the same time. This was good and I took in what was said. I hadn’t seen the primer before, and it was a bit awkward opening it and twisting at the same time as it is quite close to the side of the throttle panel. Bit of funny start to the day as we swapped headsets only to realise I had soaked them due to the heat (I know I should have my own but this will be the last thing I buy as the money IMHO is better spent on the flying for now).

So now I was beginning to understand the process in more detail, and things were slowly fitting onto place from what I remembered in the previous lesson. I am thinking “Yeah I could get used to this”! :D

Again, I done most of the taxiing, learned how to use the brakes at best, also the handbrake with the awkward release button on. The take off run was great, again having most of the control along the way, instructor looking after keeping it down the centreline. He explained as the aircraft left the ground it will want to turn left, so I was able to anticipate this with some yaw and aileron. Today is an extremely hazy day, with not what you would call good visibility. There is a lot of micro light activity and quite a few aircraft in the vicinity, and because my headsets are a bit better (much clearly sound) I am hearing a lot of air traffic advice etc, thus beginning to understand what is being said a lot more.

I like this lesson a lot because my instructor (after helping me with use of the throttle etc) is giving me tasks to do such as “Maintain 3000ft, 90 kts using attitude, controls, trim and throttle” etc, so after a few tries it seems relatively straight forward and I am beginning to get the hang of straight and level flight. A few more manoeuvres later over where I live (the training this time is mostly done North of the aerodrome, which is great as this is probably where I will be doing most of my flying upon passing) we are on our way back to the aerodrome. We do a gliding descent from 3000ft to 1400ft and he is explaining along the way what’s happening and why we are doing it this way etc. we see a Cessna at a slightly higher speed than us, so we do an orbit to let him/her in front, then we are number two in the join, following the Cessna. I am at the controls all the way until after touchdown – obviously being followed through and getting some excellent verbal instructions along the way. My first real attempt at landing which went very smooth without any problems. An amazing feeling, which still have now. Now it is time for my first ever RT transmission:


“Golf sierra alpha, leaving kilo, goodbye” to which I get an instant response.

Now anyone would think that is easy to say no problem, but let me tell you, as you all know when it was your first time, even remembering something as small as this is harder than you think. The PTT switch went down and it came out easy, and upon hearing the reply was probably the best feeling so far, I have attempted a landing and spoke to ATC (this must sound very sad to all you experienced guys, but I am sure it takes you back when you were in the same situation)! :cool:

We taxi back and go through the shutdown checks, all is well and I have learned a lot today. I feel more confident than ever and cant wait for the next lesson. Now its back to the school for the Air Law exam ! instructor offers me a brew and gets another chap to sort me out with the exam.

Now, I have read the AFE Air Law book twice, and go through the confuser twice also. I thought the exam went very well and hopefully I have passed. It took me about 25 mins to complete and really wasn’t difficult at all.

In summary, I have had a superb day. I have done the air law exam, tried a landing and used the radio. I am buzzing all over and will be until Friday morning, which is my next lesson.

Until then, thanks for reading and I look forward to writing hour 3.

Regards

Lee :D

Maz,

Good report. :ok:

Doesn't sound at all sad! It does indeed take me back to my very first radio call during an early lesson, when my instructor asked me to say "G-XXXX is five miles North for rejoin". He had to tell me about three times, and it was probably the hardest radio call I ever made. Your thread reminded me that little and often is the way to go for radio use; not all instructors get you to use the radio that early on, and it sounds like yours is a good 'un. :ok:

it was a pretty hazy day, wasn't it. Still, probably less crowded than yesterday, when I tried to get into the Liverpool Zone with a student, and had to give up after standing by for nearly ten minutes, during which the poor ATCO on Liverpool Approach hadn't stopped talking!

Keep up the flying and the writing. :ok:

Thanks Whirly - it's funy you mention the ATCO like that, I heard him say today "Jeez I got a million people talking to me at once here" - it's kinda funny looking back, but obviously at the time was probably quite stressful.

Are you based at Liverpool Whirly?

Cheers

Lee :ok:

Maz,

No; I'm a part time helicopter instructor at Hawarden, just south of you. I had a trial lesson student on Saturday who wanted to overfly his house which was near Ellesmere Port. I told him we could try, if Liverpool would let us into their zone. Well, we called up, and he got to try flying while we were standing by; then I got in a quick call to tell Liverpool we'd be returning to Hawarden. :(

I also have a share in a C150 based at Sleap.

I thought I might have an instructing job at Liverpool last year, but it never worked out.

twenty mins at the hold in the sun yesterday @ EGNH (Blackpool) wasn't fun, but well worth it to allow the Lancaster & Spitfire to take off. Taxiing passed the Lancaster on engines startup is something that will live for me forever:). Now who do I send the dri- cleaning bill too:)

Holdposition - I'm with you there, I had to do the same thing at Southampton last week. Had to give way to the Spit and got a 'thank you' wave - from a Spitfire pilot. Wow. Still smiling....:D

Congrats Mazzy!

Ah the first radio call... always a 'big thing' for the students... I remember mine was made worse by the knowledge that 15 or so of my classmates were listening in on the ground! :p

Nice description of your lesson, you're making me jealous!!! Can't wait to be back flying again as you are...

It's funny how excited we can get over things like checklists and walkarounds... but there you go! It's all part of the learning process... and if you're enjoying what you're learning, you'll learn it well! :ok:

Have fun Friday!!!

Sky

Too right ! I just cant get enough of it now ! :D

As mentioned earlier in ths thread though, I am sure there will be problems along the way, which will come along at one point or another. :8

Thanks all

Lee :ok:

Another Beginner
 

Glad to see this thread! I'm learning in Melbourne Australia at the moment and have about six hours.

Just getting into circuit work in a Cessna 150.

Keep it up sunfish ! I look forward to the circuits.........:ok:

But be prepared for both good and bad days! I have been in the circuit for a few lessons now, both on our tarmac runway and the grass (which might be bumpy, but it's wider and at least looks softer!).

Several of my lessons flogging around in circles have been good, but on Monday the haze was terrible, I was flying a non-standard circuit from the tarmac in a direction I've only used once before and I spent most of the hour severely testing my (very good) instructor's nerves. Not properly lined up, too high, too low, and flaring too early. Ah well, keep positive and try again next week!

Yeah, the circuit can be a pain, but when your instructor finally says, "OK, I'm going to hop out now and let you do one on your own." it all becomes worth it. Especially as you start nav after that which is far more interesting.

If it helps anyone out there, I had problems with flaring too high as well. I solved it by trying to view the bigger picture just when I normally flared ie. not staring at a spot on the runway like I was doing but just looking further down the runway. Made my landings a lot better and more consistant as well.

Thanks for that advice c-bert. I'll certainly try to focus my eyes further down the runway. My instructor has told me several times to look at the far end, but by the time I'm crossing the threshold my eyes are fixed rigidly just beyond the prop, on the centre-line (oh, all right, whichever side of it I've ended up!). I think, having messed it up a couple of times, I'm just getting too tense on final. Sure next time will be better:)

HH,

The tip my instructor gave me for flaring a 150/152 was to look towards the far end of the runway and when you can see the runway coming up to meet you in your peripheral vision, gradually raise the nose so that the top of the engine cowling lines up with your horizon and then hold it there. As long as you are not too fast and have chopped the power, the attitude will be just about right and you will descend nicely onto the runway.

If you look close in to the aircraft, you will tend to over compensate on the controls and either hit nosewheel first or bounce along your runway.

Hope this helps,

Obs cop

Yeah, everyone always says look at the far end of the runway, but I'm far to scared that I'll fly into the ground! About halfway down I find strikes a good balance between fear and competence...:ok:

Oh BTW, I'm no expert, a grand total of 31 hrs so far.

Hurray! It's sooo great to hear you talking about all the things I'm going through!! Kinda feel a bit isolated... A buddy of mine gave up because she couldn't handle the unpredictability of lessons being cancelled... But how great does it feel when you are up there?? Doing solo nav's at the mo. and still can't believe they let me fly off on my own... Wouldn't swap it for the world. Two more exams to go and my qualifier, gulp! Lovin it ;-)

Brilliant thread Mazzy.

I'm at Ravenair; just passed 45 hours and awaiting skill test. Went up for a couple of hours this morning and absolutely loved it, even though I made a total hash of my diversion. Had to keep flying lower and lower as the cloud base descended, and that was enough to throw my concentration. Being up there still gives me a huge buzz a year on, and I'm sad enough to get on FS2004 when I'm back on terra firma.

Whilst talking FS2004, I highly recommend the VFR photographic scenery. It really is good enough to practice nav flights, and if you link it with VFR terrain, then you can really clearly see the Beeston Hills, Helsby etc. This will help you when you start flying out of zone.

So much of your experience rings true with mine. First radio call is terrifying, but you soon get the hang of it. The guy who visits Ravenair to teach the R/T, and maybe Keenair as well, is a Manchester ATCO and really superb. Suggest you may want to do that course once you're regularly flying out of zone so you've heard MATZ penetration calls etc.

IMHO, the Pratt books are excellent, as long as you've got the Confuser - which is just essential. Doing the exams as you go, as you are, is the right way to do it - I did a load at the beginning and then left 3 until the end, which ended up getting in the way of the flying.

I know you're being diplomatic about your change of school, and totally respect that. I had some issues early on but a change to a new instructor, at my request, changed everything and I've nothing but praise for them now. As someone else says, they will be very picky over the weather you can fly in at the beginning, as smooth air with a clear horizon is essential. They do ease off as you get more experienced, as I describe above re. descending cloud base.

Liverpool is a superb airport to fly from. Excellent facilities, normally good weather, Class D discipline but uncontrolled beautiful areas all around, real feeling of sharing the skys with the big boys as you watch Easys and Ryanairs on long finals. Occasionally a bit busy, but early mornings are normally quiet.

Looking forward to hearing more.

Hour 3
 

Woke up this morning, and after a week of thunderstorms, was chuffed to see a perfect clear sky with not one knot of wind. Got to the airfield around 8:35 and booked in. My instructor was having a quick meeting with a fellow instructor so he said I could go through my checklist and do a quick external check (don’t worry, he done it himself also before the flight). So I got my high vis vest and off I went. Done the external checks, checked the fuel tanks, surface controls, undercarriage, flaps etc.

We then went back in then for the pre flight briefing. Now it is at this point that I realised I had been reading the wrong material too soon. I had previously done the Air Law exam so thought I would start on Navigation and Meteorology. The problem is, when he asked me if I had read up on climbs and descends (which was the schedule for today) I could do nothing but say no. He told me I should be reading through the syllabus as we go through it before each lesson, so that I at least have a basic understanding of the subject in hand. So at this point I have just finished reading the Met section of the AFE book. I am going to drop it here for now and start on flying training, reading the parts I will need for the next lesson. I have 18 months to do the exams in so not really in any great rush. I know I have to pass nav/met though before first cross country, but this will be a while off.

Now onto the flight. The pre flight checks are starting to sink in, I needed a quick reminder on the suction, the ammeter reading and the magneto check. All else was ok. I got to do most of the taxiing too, which is getting easier. Ok so all take off checks complete and we continue to roll down and take off. The plan of action for today was climbs and descents. We flew over the usual territory and began training. At this point it is worth mentioning that in the pre flight briefing, my instructor went through all the theory that I would need, and the actual procedures of climbing and descending.

I remember being in the bulldogs as a cadet and the pilot drilling into me “P-A-T”, Power-Attitude-Trim. I have always remembered this and we used this today. To climb, add full power, raise the nose to the correct attitude to maintain 70 knots. Instructor would cover up the speed indicator so that I didn’t rely on it too much and “chase the needle” as they say. So I gave it a go without verbal instruction……full power, raise nose, trim and wait. I found that that engine tone and reaction of controls would indicate the correct speed/attitude, and low and behold, when he removed his hand from over the air-speed indicator – bang on 70kts! Felt great! so when levelling off, I kept power full, lowered the nose to zero climb and waited for 90 kts, then reduce the power to around 2200 rpm (maybe a little more). It is at this point when the acronym becomes “A-P-T”. I am getting along fine with this and enjoying my success for the time being. Quite a few tries later we start to head back. I enjoy these lessons because I have got control for 95% of the flight, none of this “Here I will turn for you”. I always remember my driving instructor, he would hover over the brakes and actually use them with you as you were braking, pointless as you will never get used to the brakes!

Another very successful lesson, landing was very smooth. One thing I found interesting today was the way the stall indicator works – I have always wondered this. A tiny metal flap on the leading edge of the port wing which lifts up when the angle of attack increases – very, very basic but extremely important device – no rocket science here!

Next lesson is Sunday, but I think the wind will be picking up too much so I am anticipating a cancellation. More time to get started on the flying training book.

Best regards

Lee.

Footsie - I know what you mean about the flight sim - just cant get enough mate !!

Mazzy

Another great read - took me right back to my early training at Biggin in the early 90's. I have to admit to being another FS2004 + VFR Photographic Scenery + VFR Terrain Mesh fan - not for the "skill" aspect (it doesn't require any..) but more for the views - incredible for a Flight Sim - I would certainly recommend the combination to any fellow pilots grounded by the weather with nothing to do;)

http://www.visualflight.co.uk/ (for anyone interested)

Regards

Adam

PS: Looking forward to your next report!

This is a good read! It's hard to talk about anything else when you're just learning, isn't it?

My experience suggests that it's a good idea to keep plugging at the exams, even if you do have ages. I didn't, and it really held me back a couple of times (first solo and pre-skill test). On the other hand, it's harder to learn and remember the content without the first-hand experience, especially law, nav and fpp. Hmmmm....

Ah well, keep up the head of steam!

:)

Or you can stay with P-A-T and put A-S on the front for "attitude, speed", "A-S-P-A-T", ie you level off, let the speed build, drop the power, readjust attitude which will now need to be slightly different because of the power change, and trim.