IR - order of events
 

Am planning an IR over the next couple of years (purely for PPL use, not planning to go commercial).

Could some kind soul please confirm I have the order of events right under JAR:

(a) attend a ground school course (possibly distance learning)
(b) pass ridiculous number of exams (rather than the US's one)
(c) do the flying bit
(d) pass the 170A test
(e) pass the IRT?

Also is (a) right, i.e. you can't just enter yourself for the exams if you think you're clever enough?!

Tim

Yes, that's about right.

Not sure exactly what the score is with the 170A - I've only ever heard that phrase used for a CPL, not an IR, but since I haven't done the IR yet I may be wrong. But in any case, that will just be part of C) anyway, not actually a step in its own right.

The only other thing you've not got quite right is the "possibly distance learning" bit. Unfortunately, there won't be much choice. The list of approved schools only contains 3 schools approved to offer this course (see page 6), and all 3 of those are distance learning schools. The only other option would be to do the ATPL exams on a residential course, get the IR, and let the exams lapse without getting the CPL :eek:

Good luck - you may need it!!!

FFF
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You forgot shell out huge quanities of money.

You have it pretty much right. There is 4 weeks of residential ground school even if you do the distance learning.

And the ground school have to sign you off to be able to sit the exams although they only did this for the first set of exams for me. I don't know if anyone checks for the second set though.

MJ

A completed form 170A needs to be in the possession of a candidate for the IRT as well.

If you have a Class 2 medical you will need an audiogram.

Your PPL must contain a Night Rating or Night Qualification.

There is a X-country hours requirement.

Its all in LASORS

R

Not much to be gained by doing an FAA IR and then converting, either, as far as I can tell: still 15hrs training to do and still need to do the course/exams.

Harrumph...

Tim

PS Interestingly the CAA list didn't include someone I spoke to at the London Air Show on Sat called ?Pilot Training Ltd. based in Bournemouth, who offered distance learning plus 2 weeks' residential.

All very unnecessary, if you ask me...

And there you have hit the nail on the head as to why so many people opt for an FAA IR instead of a JAR one.

It IS all very unneccessary.

Also missed out the onerus yearly and very expensive IR renewal test with of course the very expensive CAA fees.

It wasn't a rant.

I am impressed, just done my renewal fro the MEP alone was 1:15 for the skills test which comprised of steep turns, stalls, EFATO, Asym flight. Not sure how we would have fitted an IR renewal in there as well.

It may work combining with a twin renewal but who said TM wanted to do an MEIR?

In my experiance the JAR IR is much more costly and difficult to gain and maintain.

But like I said not a rant but I can start one if you want?

:}

rustle,

£125? Luxury! £160 where I do mine!! Plus £50 for letting me use aerodrome!!!

GT.

The biggest problems with the JAR IR are the silly ground school, and the pointless additional audiogram which you fail if you have assymetric ear performance despite hearing on a standard aviation headset (which is mono not stereo) perfectly well...

Actually just 2 weeks of residential ground school - 1 week per module - certainly at GTS in Bournemouth and almost certainly at all the others.

Incidentally, I used GTS and would highly recommend them for the groundschool - they really know their stuff.

The groundschool is reputed to be boring and irrelevant, but apart from a few notable exceptions (eg airlaw history and selcall) it was mostly pretty interesting. Some of the stuff you have to memorize is totally useless. Other bits, such as met, is fascinating and very useful indeed.

rustle

The headset may be stereo but it's mono by the time it comes out of the intercom, except possibly when feeding something into the crew music input :O

With the number of 25k hour, VERY deaf, grey-haired but current ATPLs I've met, I can't help this is another initial hurdle.

Confirm (a) to (e) correct sequence.

Most folk find the whole process a test of endurance and determination - especially if you are trying to hold down a full time job. There are a number of thresholds to overcome and don't be surprised at doing a few of the elements or parts thereof - more than once.

Further order of events - one year down the line.

Renewal for MEP LAND/IR-SPA-ME is a combined annual 2-hour plus flying shakedown for which you will need to be totally current on procedural and GH aspects. Same standards as the initial IRT. Noticed more and more of US style oral examination entering the pre-flight and post-flight briefing with focus on technical questions - cross feeding, gear failures, engine fire procedures. Depending on the examiner - the renewal also includes more failures beyond just asymmetric flight that already lasts for about 1/4 to a 1/3 of the I/F element of the test. DME, RT, autopilot failures - then throw in de icing failures or simulated ice accreting faster than you can clear it - sometimes you wonder what next!

It's all achievable and probably less than a good line check and renewal on type with IRT that our commercial brethren undergo in the sim. (No smoke or really obscure systems failures!)

Expensive but totally safety focused and a good way of staying up to speed with the latest thinking.

Go for it. :ok:

Just to scotch any rumours I am definitely not planning a MEIR - as I fly mostly for pleasure I'm not in such a hurry to get places that I'm willing to double my flying costs by flying a twin (though if someone came along with a DA42 Twin Star I might change my mind...!)

It might be too early to tell, but are there any statistics on how many people let JAA IRs lapse?

Presumably I could combine my SEP revalidation with the IRR every other time - at the moment I combine it with the IMC renewal biennially.

Tim

Tim

This link to PPL/IR Europe contains a wealth of information.

Not really sure how many folk let these ratings lapse? I suppose eventually all ratings lapse but it would be a big pity to let it lapse within six years of gaining it - otherwise you would have to do it all over again. This would be a bad thing and not the way of dam fine airman!

It's a mute point - but if you have an IMC rating this can be revalidated automatically with your IRR. Sort of interesting little freebie. :hmm:

Quote:

Presumably I could combine my SEP revalidation with the IRR every other time - at the moment I combine it with the IMC renewal biennially.

There is nothing more to do beyond the IRR itself. The IRR counts as your 'dual flight with an instructor' in its own right.

Absolutely right - and fortunately the CFI I deal with agrees - though there have been alarming incidences (there was a thread on here a month or so ago) of the 'dual flight' starting to become a test with specified content.

I can see the benefits of the IRR including IMC, actually, as if you were a bit late with or partialled the IRR one year, you would at least have another 13 months' IMC privileges to tide you over while you sorted out the problem.

Tim

Though of course on an IMC rating at 500ft AGL you'd be visual... wouldn't you...?

T

The increased IMCR minima are advisory, not mandatory. Only the 1800m vis is mandatory (ANO).

A great deal of stuff appears in the mountain of paper emitted by the CAA. It's advisory unless it is the law.

Legally, an IMCR pilot can descend to the published minima.

rustle

I asked this question once and was told No and that one has to nominate the purpose of the skills test in advance. Of course, whatever you can agree with the examiner will be fine :O

It's a similar situation with instrument training. I asked if I could start on training for the IMCR and then, before the IMCR skills test, change my mind and continue to the full IR. The instructor was a frozen ATPL. He said it can't be done. Could there have been some other reason?

Yes, there is, honest.

The IMC is a UK rating but the IR is a JAR rating and has to be completed at an approved FTO to an approved syllabus (with approved instructors....), so unless you start on a 'proper' IR course, the CAA will not recognise any IMC training as contributing towards IR issue!