Glider PPL (I dont understand this)
 

As well as doing my fixed wing PPL on warriors, i am starting my glider PPL next week, as long as the weather holds off.

What i dont understand is the fact that you can do your glider PPL on a Grob 109B which is just a single engined aircraft basically. They state that it uses the engine for taxying and climbing and then switcxhes off the engine and glides back down.

What is the difference between this and a warrior. Surely you could just not switch the engine off and then fly around and land it normally like a single engined plane.

What i am trying to ask is, if i did my glider PPL on this why would it not count as a normal PPL due to the fact that it has an engine.

Weird???

I've never flown a motor glider, only the ordinary kind, so I'm not sure what level of instrumentation they have.

Are they equipped to cover the instrument and radio nav parts of the PPL syllabus? If not, that's probably part of the reason you can't get a GrpA PPL on them, as well as the requirements for public C of A etc.

You might be able to save money by doing the PPL first and then cross-crediting to the NPPL with SLMG rating.

So i could do a PPL on a motorglider, then after that cross to the NPPL then do some more training and get a PPL (A)?

Im not looking for the best ways to save money for a PPL, i couldnt care how much it costed, that answers a question which someone posted on another of my threads.

Thanks Flightstimulator

So i could do a PPL on a motorglider, then after that cross to the NPPL then do some more training and get a PPL (A)?

You could certainly get an NPPL with SLMG rating first and then go on to the JAR PPL. Beware of a catch when it comes to counting NPPL hours towards the JAR licence though. If all your NPPL training is carried out by a JAR flight instructor, at a CAA-registered training facility, then you get a 30-hour credit towards the JAR licence. If not, then you don't get this concession.

See the NPPL information site at www.nppl.uk.com


I don't know if there is any form of motor glider licence now apart from the NPPL. The old microlight licence has been completely replaced by the NPPL, but I don't know if the same applies to the SLMG world.


Im not looking for the best ways to save money for a PPL, i couldnt care how much it costed,

Lucky man!

PWP There's more to this than you seem to have heard so far. There are possibilities both under JAA and NPPL.

JAA PPL

You can train for a PPL SEP (single engine piston ie PA28 etc) or for a PPL TMG (touring motor glider ie Grob 109, T-67). Once you have either of these you only need to undergo class rating training and a skill test to add TMG to SEP or vice-versa. Class rating training is 'as long as it takes' and the skill test is 40 minutes of GH and circuits. In the UK a TMG rating will allow you to fly SLMGs (such as Stemme S10) as well.

NPPL

You can train for a NPPL on certain SEP or on SLMG (which, this time, include TMGs). You then need differences training to add SEP to the SLMG or vice versa. As Fly Stimulator says, you need to be careful about what, where and with whom if you want to convert subsequently to a JAA PPL.

My how quaint of you PWP to be seeking sense in a system which is just becoming more and more complex.

Best to assume that logic and reasoning are not present then you won't get aggravated; confused maybe but not aggravated.

Lucky money is not an issue. Best of luck whichever way you go - I think probably the glider/motorglider route first has more chance of making you a better pilot. But what do I know.

So if i do my PPL on a TMG, then once ive got that do a class rating on the PA-28. Then i will end up with a TMG PPL and a Fixed Wing PA-28 PPL?

Much better to do your PPL for SE Land (a Cessna or Piper) then do a test in a motor glider. The glider is different to fly than a normal aircraft and I really believe that it's easier to start from scratch and stay with the same aircraft type from scratch through to PPL and then try diffent types of aircraft including motor gliders. The PPL SE Land covers motor gliders as well although you will need a check out on a motor glider by a CAA examiner who will stamp your log book to the effect that he thinks you are competent to fly one. Glider air brakes sure are different to flaps!

I am having family dificulties at the moment and so i think it is not going to be possible to do the PPL SE on a Warrior. I was therefore thinking that if i could do a PPL on a motorglider, then after i get that do a class rating on a warrior and then i would end up with two PPL's esentiaslly.

I believe the time taken for my class rating on the warrior would be less also, due to the fact that i have quite a lot of experience of the aircraft.

If anyone could tell me whether or not it is possible to do it this way, it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

As others have said take care here because out of the NPPL comes beaurocracy beyond belief.

There are two motor glider ratings. TMG which is a JAA rating and which can easily be added to a JAA licence. There are very few schools equipped to train for this rating which requires a minimum of 45 hours, a Public Transport C of A and a licensed aerodrome.

Then comes the SLMG rating, a National rating which is now part of the NPPL. This is conducted under the auspices of the BGA at unlicensed aerodromes. It is much cheaper, more readily available and requires only 32 hours.

Now to convert your NPPL (SLMG) to a NPPL (SEP) rating, you only need differences training. There is no test according to the NPPL Website. This means you can acquire a SEP rating to carry up to 3 passengers without having been near a JAA instructor or Examiner (other than for the undefined differences training).

To convert you NPPL to a JAA PPL will then require 25 hours with a JAA instructor.

The Northumbria Gliding Club website states that training in the motorglider is 65p per minute which is 36 pounds an hour or there abouts. Will this price include an instructor or is that price just for the plane?

Anyone know???

:)

So let me get this straight. You have financial problems so have decided its too expensive for a ppl so now trying gliding to get a 'ppl'. What was it AerBabe said in a previous thread. Sums it all up in one.
Wy do you call yourself 'Piper Warrior Pilot' when you are not even one :confused: What next, 'Grob Glider Pilot(nearly, sort of, well not exactly)?

Theres no need to take the ****. Im asking a question and i dont expect to get witty answers back.

Its true what they say about people on here. The majority are kind and helpful but you do get the odd one.

Why do you call yourself EKKL?

Why do some people call themselves Jumbo Pilot when they're not even pilots themselves.

Its not that its too expensive its just that some problems have arisen and i cant do my PPL (A) yet, so i was looking into maybe getting a SLMG or TMG PPL instead at the moment.

So as for your sarcastic coments, if you've got nothing constructive to say EKKL, then dont say anything at all!

Thankyou to everybody else for their constructive coments, its been appreciated and if anyone does know whether or not it would be possible fo me to get a SLMG PPL or TMG PPL and then convert to PPL (A) please let me know.

Regards

PWP,
Firstly, I am not having pop at you but let me get this straight, a few days ago you were asking about training in a Seneca at £215 per hour, now you are asking about training in a motor-glider at £36 per hour.
What next? The nearest radio controlled club.
You have also been 'just about to start training' for months now.
Take the advice I gave you a few months ago, it is not a race to get the PPL and the training should be enjoyed, it is also STILL very expensive to remain a current PPL, say £100+ a month which is a lot of cash to a 16 year old.
Do the motor-gliding, but only because it is FUN, CHEAP and not as the start of a glittering career.

Walt,,

Thankyou, but does anyone know whether or not i can convert to a PPL (A) from a SLMG or TMG PPL?

I know how this all sounds but its a long story about why i cant do my PPL (A) straight away at the moment, long and complicated.

So wait then !!!!!!!!
You are only 16 for pete's sake, another year or two is not going to make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things. I was 31 and financially secure (sort of) before I even THOUGHT of doing my PPL;) . I have heared of people who started there training older than me and now fly commercially.

Walt,,

I am not waiting, i have had 2 lessons, spent 300 pounds on equipment and then my dad has said that i can only have one lesson a month which i told him was impractical, and i can afford two but he wont let me.

I was planning on getting my PPL in time for finishing college, then getting a professional studies loan and paying for hour building and CPL.

I need to know whether or not i can convert a SLMG PPL or TMG PPL into a PPL (A).

I have the flying bug, another two years of waiting will kill me................well not literally but you get my drift.

Just a suggestion, look out for a gliding club near you, the cost of gliding is substantially less than power flying and it will also make you a better pilot. Glider flying is real flying and is altogether different than being dragged along behind a fan. You will be a better pilot for it! Once you find that you have more funds, get yourself into motor flying. Most gliding clubs have a motor glider and the big upside is that you don't pay for instructor time at gliding clubs - its voluntary work!

Motorgliders
 

Dear PWP - You are fortunate indeed as a 16 year old kid to get such advice to your wide and varied questions.

THere is a little more relevance to my handle than yours I'm afraid....

I can't think of a better aircraft to look forward to flying than the Grob 109b. If you aren't in the ATC you should be.

You will learn so much more in a motorglider than a fresh spamcan PPL - stick and rudder skills, tailwheel, gliding - all these will give you such a good start.

THe 109b - identical to the RAF Vigilant - will fly at 95kts for 700+ miles, sipping only 12-15 litres of fuel an hour - all in wonderful comfort. Gorgeous aircraft.

So - get yourself along to your nearest ATC squadron, bull your boots, keep your hair short, attend regularly and study for all the badges. Before you know it - you will have yourself a Flying Scholarship.

If you go to Uni - make sure they have a University Air Squadron.

I lacked direction as a 16 year old and fell into girlies, motorbikes and booze. I don't ride motorbikes anymore and still lack direction.

Bottie