Starting PPL
 

I am looking to start my PPL training and i can see that there are 2 aircrafts to choose from which are the Cessna and Piper.

Is there a benefit of choosing one over the other?

If i complete my PPL training on a Cessna, will i be able to fly the Piper too.

Thanks

There are literally hundreds of different airplane types you can train in, although Cessna and Piper do seem to have a big market share. Getting a PPL will give you an SEP rating, which means you can pretty much fly any other similar single engine piston airplane (with a few exceptions requiring extra training). A bit like taking your test in a Ford then buying a Vauxhall. It's always a good idea to get 'checked out' on a new airplane by an instructor, and if you're renting they'll insist anyway.

Hi Adam

Which country do you live in - mainly UK advice here…

His location says UK.

Welcome Adam,

The best choice between Cessna and Piper for your training will be the one which is most affordable and convenient to you, so you'll fly more. There are differences, and many pilots have a preference, but either one will get you up and learning! The Cessna 150/152 is a little more gust sensation, so will home your skills just a little better in windy landings. The low wing Pipers float a little more on landing, so will make you more precise about your approaches. All good skills to have, and either type will teach you...

Hi Adam,

England, Scotland or Wales? Approximate location would help too. There may well be someone nearby that you could have a chat with. Loads of good advice here if you so desire!

Yeah, the more you can tell us the more the advice can be tailored. For example, do you want a PPL for fun flying or because you want it as a stepping stone to becoming a commercial pilot. Factors such as do you have a full time job, wife and kids, live with parents, own a car, willing to travel etc will all effect the appropriate training route for you.

Hi Adam,

The Cessna, e.g. C152 has a high wing - it is mounted above the pilot - so your view of the ground is unobstructed, apart from the wing support struts. The C152 is quite small and cramped - you will be literally rubbing shoulders with your instructor, and it only has 2 seats. I don't know if a C172 is any wider, but it does have four seats.

The Piper, e.g. PA28 is bigger and has a wing mounted below the pilot, so the view of the ground is obstructed quite a lot to the sides - not so good for sight-seeing. The PA28 has a larger cabin and is much more like a "real" aeroplane, whereas the C152 feels much smaller, more basic and flimsy, (but it is strong where it needs to be and is perfectly adequate - I started on a C152).

I imagine a PA28 will be more expensive to hire per hour than a C152.

They are both adequate aircraft for learning to fly. A C152 Aerobat can fly loops, I don't know if a PA28 is authorised for that.

If you learn on one type, you will be licensed to fly the other type - your licence will state SEP for single engine piston - but you should have some instruction, maybe a written test, and a test flight to ensure you know the differences. Things like critical speeds, operation of the flaps, basic handling etc.

I don't personally know the details about any other PPL types, but others here will be able to describe those. I only flew the C152, the PA28 and the Seneca twin before moving on to turbo-props and then big jets.

It really depends why you want to fly.

Enjoy, and good luck :ok:

It is wider.

Cessna and Piper are both makes, like say Ford or Renault - both make a lot of models.

Most common in training schools are:

2-seats: Piper PA38, Cessna C150, Cessna C152

4 seats: Piper PA28, Cessna C172

For a variety of reasons including simplicity, cockpit layout and handling, most instructors would consider the 2-seaters to be better training aeroplanes than the 4-seaters. However, flying schools tend to favour the 4-seaters, as they're more robust, can carry passengers in the back, and are more suitable to the overweight adults who are increasingly normal in society - so they're better for the flying school business model.

Ultimately any of them are suitable to learn to fly, they all fly pretty similarly to each other, and once you've got your licence in one, it's generally only an hour or two's training to be able to fly any of the others.

Also however, the aeroplane is a lot less important than the school and the instructor. Get those right first, and the aeroplane - so long as you can fit in it okay and pay the bills, is much less important. When you meet your instructor ask yourself if you're happy to spend 50+ hours sat in a small metal box learning from that person: it's a really important question.

And by the way, DON'T pay up front for any flying, always pay as you go.

G

Allow me to add a thought on 2 seat vs 4 seat:
If your goal is to fly 200 hours as a stepping-stone to a CPL and you want to keep the costs down, then go for a 2 seater because it doesn't matter too much whether you get your PPL in 45 hours or 65 hours. However, if your goal is to get a PPL in minimum hours, you will do that in a 4 seater. By that I mean you absolutely WILL get your PPL in 45 hours (or whatever your NAA requires). Why? Backseating. There are 4 ways to learn to fly a plane: Front seating, Back seating, Simulators and Chair flying. If you learn in a 2 seater you get 45 hours to get it right. If you learn in a 4 seater with a like-minded training partner then you get to do everything twice, once doing and once watching. Believe me you will learn just as much from the back seat for free.
Add in some chair flying (literally sitting on a chair and imagining you're flying, running through procedures and checklists etc) and with consistent flying you can guarantee a 45 hour PPL. Anyone who says it will probably take longer didn't do all those things.

For prime training I'd prefer the high wing Cessna. Even better, if it suits your needs, to train in an ultralight (aka as a microlight to some): more affordable, better availability if only for the less stringent aerodrome requirements. Types like the C42 Ikaros are abundant, and to small wonder.

PS the remarks by GtE are more than worth reading, and careful consideration.

And a Eurofox (to name just one) is wider still.

I started my PPL (recently passed) in a PA28-160 Warrior and due to airframe availability issues moved to a C150/152 for the last 30 hours. To be honest, both have their ups and their downs, I personally prefer the high wing because I like to take my family to see the sights of our amazing country. Go with whatever is cheaper overall, then convert post licencing if you fancy a different type. I have completed TL3000 and 172 conversions in my first 10 hours of post licence flying.

Thanks for replying guys. Its really helped me out.

I live in England and the closest flight schools are north weald and stapleford.

I only plan to do my PPL and don't have any plans to take any commercial route.

I've just graduated from university, so I'll be starting my new job soon so and getting my PPL would just be a hobby for me.

If you guys have anymore advice or any questions that i may need to ask when i go for a test flight please do let me know.

Much appreciated everyone

I learned on Cessna 172 - various types, really liked the 172M

Did my PPL in Jan/Feb 2011, didn't fly for 18 months due to the scarcity of planes here.

So a bought a plane in New Jersey - I went for a Piper Archer II (PA28-181) - a bigger engine, faster and equally as comfortable as Cessna.

Did a couple of hours of dual in it with an instructor getting my BFR and then flew it back to Barbados - think it was easier than it would have been in a Cessna, no real reason for thinking that.

Pretty much you learn to fly and you can fly anything in the class of airplane you are certified in - with the correct type instruction - all subject to the whims of your insurance company.

Good luck with the training :)

Hi Adam,
I trained at Stapleford many years ago, and now fly regularly from North Weald.
I believe that Stapleford is more orientated now to commercial pilot training although they still have a flying club.
North Weald has a good flying training organisation (two in fact) I suggest that you contact them all and visit to see what you think.
a trial lesson with each will help you decide, and the hours flown with each will count towards your ppl required hours.

Are you then really sure it is a PPL you want? A sub-icao license willl do just as well for recreational flying, and at much reduced cost.
The one advantage of the PPL is that it leaves options for upgrading, to complex or multi-engine or to night VFR or even IFR. As long as you're happy with flying a SEP in day VFR the PPL is a waste of money and effort.

If you aren't looking at a professional career, and just want to fly for fun, plus are recently graduated from university (and therefore are somewhat short on cash, unless you're incredibly lucky), then I'd suggest look to either doing an NPPL(M) - otherwise known as a microlight licence, or looking to join a gliding club. Both will give you a much better "fun to the pound" ratio than arguably a standard light aircraft licence does.

(It's what I did when I graduated in 1992, I had a then PPL(D) about the end of 1993, and I still fly microlights, and love them - albeit that I'll admit to branching out to a load of other sorts of flying since.)

A fairly short drive down the M25 will get you to Exodus Airsports who have an excellent reputation in the microlight world: http://exodusairsports.co.uk/ but if you look on the websites of the British Microlight Aircraft Association (BMAA) and the British Gliding Association (BGA) you'll find plenty of other options.

G

For the Cessna vs Piper debate, it depends on whether you prefer to bash your head or your legs :}

There are other aircraft sometimes used by flight schools like the Tecnam's and Diamond DA40's, but C152, C172's and PA28's appear to be the most common used.

I've predominantly flown a C152 and C172 for my PPL. Big advantages are visibility of the ground which is nice for sightseeing, but you can't see very well when turning such as when you're turning to final, but it's not too big a deal.

C152's are probably the cheapest aircraft you'll come across for learning on, but with two adults you might not have such a great range as there's a fair chance you won't be able to carry full tanks of fuel because of the weight. If you and your passenger are fairly slender, you might be able to though. Some have long range tanks which will give you around 6 hours flying time, but unlikely you'll be able to take anyone with you when carrying that much fuel.

The C172 is a bit faster and more practical for longer trips what with the extra space and capacity to carry fuel etc. The C172 is easy to fly and the C152 even more so.

My experience with PA28's if fairly limited, but if you do decide to move beyond a PPL, a lot of flight schools still use variants of the PA28 for their commercial courses, so you'll probably feel right at home stepping into that. It also feels like PA28's are a bit more abundant in general.

Ultimately, they're all great training aircraft and different people will have different preferences, but these are the main things I've observed.

I've got 1 more question.

is there a maximum time frame that you need to complete your lessons to get your license. I'm based in UK, so if i took 2 years to do lessons would that be fine etc.

also how long did you guys take to get your license