Synthetic VOR/DME
I have just sent this as a future feature request to Garmin Pilot. I thought I might post it here to see if it makes sense to you lot and if anyone is aware of an exiting solution:
Where I typically fly, aircraft flying VFR in uncontrolled airspace report their position on the traffic advisory frequency, typically as range and bearing from a particular VOR/DME. My aircraft does not have DME so I have no easy way judge the position of an aircraft relative to me and thus decide if there is a potential conflict. A simple solution would be for me to enter the VOR/DME location as a waypoint, and have an option to display range and bearing to that 'special' waypoint. In effect this would be using GPS to emulate a VOR/DME receiver. I don’t believe that I can currently do this unless I have the VOR/DME as a waypoint on an active flightplan which of course is not practical. Any comments? |
As a progamming job it is not hard. It isn't even impossible to design/conceive a dedicated device to do this, an Arduino could be sufficient, a Raspberry PI would be ample. The human interface to select/define the waypoint would take the most effort. But would it be legal to use such a non-certified device?
And didn't I hear (in some obscure corner of the www) that VORs are on the way out, though DMEs might remain as a backup against total GNSS failure? As a pilot, I should think Skydaemon or any similar software package should give that info anyway, if the waypoint/VOR/DME is in the active flight plan? |
Alternatively, just a rough best guess? For VFR outside Controlled Airspace it really makes no difference whether you're 10nm west of point X or 10.5nm west of it.
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Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers
(Post 10682096)
As a pilot, I should think Skydaemon or any similar software package should give that info anyway, if the waypoint/VOR/DME is in the active flight plan?
Originally Posted by LastStandards
(Post 10682104)
Alternatively, just a rough best guess? For VFR outside Controlled Airspace it really makes no difference whether you're 10nm west of point X or 10.5nm west of it.
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The Garmin 430 has a cursor facility that gives bearing and distance of wherever the cursor is placed. “Target” doesn’t need to be in a flight plan but obviously needs to be set to “display...”
i don’t know Garmin Pilot, but as the 430 has been around for 30years and this is fairly common functionality I would be surprised if similar wasn’t already in the Garmin Pilot.... |
Originally Posted by Duchess_Driver
(Post 10684308)
The Garmin 430 has a cursor facility that gives bearing and distance of wherever the cursor is placed. “Target” doesn’t need to be in a flight plan but obviously needs to be set to “display...”
i don’t know Garmin Pilot, but as the 430 has been around for 30years and this is fairly common functionality I would be surprised if similar wasn’t already in the Garmin Pilot.... |
Garmin 430 and family: "Direct To" the waypoint (VOR), then press the OBS button. Using the physical round dial (if fitted & connected) or the pop-up menu of the 430 (if not), to set the OBS value. The magenta line now shows the to/from bearings. Extrapolate the "scale" line/bar (lower left corner of the GPS map display) mentally on that bearing line and you know where you are vs. that other aircraft.
Having said that, I would not do this at all. If the aircraft is far away there's no conflict and by the time you are at his position he'll be gone anyway. And if there is a potential conflict, a simple bearing like this is way too inaccurate to take proper avoiding action. It's much better to be looking outside than to have your eyes in the cockpit trying to program the box. |
Why not find the point on the chart (paper or nav display) and just estimate the approximate distance from that? There's absolutely no point in plotting distance to decimal places from a radio navaid in a VFR cruise outside CAS; in any case, if you're becoming concerned about the near proximity of another reported aircraft go eyes out, not IN.
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
(Post 10685241)
if you're becoming concerned about the near proximity of another reported aircraft go eyes out, not IN.
Exactly. That's why I thought it would be nice to glance at 2 numbers that tell me all I need to know, then I know where the hazard is and can immediately get my eyes out. I don't want to be fiddling with a chart or ipad. |
I think you would be better served improving your situational awareness without relying on electronics. You should always have an accurate idea of where you are relative to landmarks, navaids etc. If you hear someone make a position report based on a VOR/DME position you should be able to immediately visualise where they are and what, if any, conflict they may be. People tend to over read charts and try to overcomplicate the basics of good airmanship.
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Originally Posted by double_barrel
(Post 10685866)
Exactly. That's why I thought it would be nice to glance at 2 numbers that tell me all I need to know, then I know where the hazard is and can immediately get my eyes out. I don't want to be fiddling with a chart or ipad.
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I don‘t know GarminPilot, but use ForeFlight and Skydemon. Both will show you bearing and distance when the VOR/DME is tapped on the map. I would be surprised if GP does not have the function already. RTFM maybe?
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Note this advice has come from at least 2 people on this thread with a good few thousand hours each operating in Class G airspace at a variety of levels and speeds... |
OK, OK, I don't want a quick and simple way to know my location relative to the standard reference that everyone else around me is using. I'll just keep gazing out of the window.
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Where I fly it's easier just to get a Traffic Service.
But from a situational awareness point of view, I really shouldn't be out if I can't judge whether or not there is a risk from somebody who says he's 18 nm south of Biggin. |
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
(Post 10686587)
I only have 43 years of flying for a living in Class G and instructor ratings on both fixed wing and helicopters; and another four or five years of private flying before that, so I obviously still have a lot to learn.....
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Originally Posted by double_barrel
(Post 10686690)
OK, OK, I don't want a quick and simple way to know my location relative to the standard reference that everyone else around me is using. I'll just keep gazing out of the window.
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Please don't think I am ignoring your messages, I am almost certainly the least experienced PPL here and I know that I have an almost infinite amount to learn. But I like to think I am pretty good at visualizing where I am relative to the 'landscape'. That comes from many years in charge of large boats. Nevertheless, I don't have an accurate running fix in my head and if someone gives me a position and direction of flight I felt it would be useful to know if they were ahead or behind or were likely to cross from left or right. But it seems that I am overthinking this, thanks for your inputs.
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Originally Posted by double_barrel
(Post 10687267)
Please don't think I am ignoring your messages, I am almost certainly the least experienced PPL here and I know that I have an almost infinite amount to learn. But I like to think I am pretty good at visualizing where I am relative to the 'landscape'. That comes from many years in charge of large boats. Nevertheless, I don't have an accurate running fix in my head and if someone gives me a position and direction of flight I felt it would be useful to know if they were ahead or behind or were likely to cross from left or right. But it seems that I am overthinking this, thanks for your inputs.
have you thought maybe some people maybe under thinking it? I’ve never heard anyone give there location in that way. But if they do then knowing where you are in similar terms is very sensible. The quickest way will be a readout as you asked. Very easy if you have a second GPS |
Originally Posted by blueandwhite
(Post 10687345)
have you thought maybe some people maybe under thinking it? I’ve never heard anyone give there location in that way. But if they do then knowing where you are in similar terms is very sensible. The quickest way will be a readout as you asked. Very easy if you have a second GPS
However, the last thing we need is pilots in Class G becoming more reliant on hand held/ operated electronic devices that require them to be heads in/eyes down to lap level. As it is, it never ceases to amaze me how many pilots don't take avoiding action, or even show any acknowledgement of the presence of another aircraft, when they are bound to do so by the rules of the air. I can only assume it's because their lookout is totally ineffective. Either that or they don't know the right of way rules, which is less likely, seeing as we all have to pass the same air law exam. |
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