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-   -   Anyone used Pilotaware Rosetta? (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/626608-anyone-used-pilotaware-rosetta.html)

Mooneyboy 24th Oct 2019 08:38

Anyone used Pilotaware Rosetta?
 
Hello,

I fly in a very busy area of the UK for GA and although I try to keep as good a look out as possible Iím always wary of the other aircraft I havenít spotted.

Iím in a club using an aircraft shared by many so Iím looking at a portable device which I can hook up to SkyDemon to provide traffic information. Iíve come across Pilotaware Rosetta and was wondering if anyone has any feedback or advice on using one.

Thanks

Mooneyboy

ETOPS 24th Oct 2019 08:47

Hi Mooneyboy,

I have flown with my PAW Rosetta for a year and a half and have to say it is an excellent aid to traffic awarness.

I have it set up to feed both Skydemon on an i-Pad and also my Mode S transponder to allow ADSB - out. I use a blue tooth headset and so receive the voice alerts from SD for traffic and other warnings such as airspace etc. As a belt and braces I also have an i-Phone set to just the PAW "radar" screen which ties up nicely with the voice alerts.

Won't go flying without it.

Forfoxake 24th Oct 2019 09:14

I use the older version of PAW and display it on Skydemon because many of the microlights based nearby have it. I also have a portable PowerFLARM set which displays FLARM transmitters (mainly gliders) directly, ADS-B transmitters (mainly airliners) and Mode A/C/S equipped light aircraft (bearingless)- this is still the vast majority of relevant contacts unless I fly near a gliding field. The PowerFLARM set also transmits a FLARM signal and I have a Mode C transponder. I am considering getting a SkyEcho 2 (also portable) to transmit ADS-B (which I think is the most likely common format in the future, despite FLARM being an excellent collision avoidance system imho).

The airspace where I normally fly is not nearly as busy as say, the SE of England but I find the electronic information, particularly the audio alerts, on traffic invaluable.

PS The aerial attached to the PAW box seems to detect traffic at a decent range, but PowerFLARM benefits from remote aerials though not necessarily external- mine hang high up inside the cockpit. This certainly improved the live transmission/detection range of FLARM signals according to online tools developed by the gliding community.

Mooneyboy 25th Oct 2019 15:39

Thankyou for your replies.

I think itís certainly something Iím going to invest in. I do fly in the SE of London area so can be extremely busy. Even if it doesnít pick up all returns as long as it picks up most it will be a lot better than relying on atc and the mk1 eyeball.

Annoyingly I bought a DC headset a year and a half ago and decided against the Bluetooth.

Does the traffic alerts still play through the phone and just to confirm it does pick up mode c and mode s traffic?

Forfoxake 25th Oct 2019 17:04

I understand that PAW displays bearingless Mode C and S transmitters, and is trialling picking up Mode S with a bearing via the Open Gliding Network (OGN). This is also how PAW picks up FLARM transmitters. Unfortunately, the network of OGN rebroadcast ground stations is very patchy in Scotland but check coverage in your area.
That is why I still prefer PowerFLARM, which picks up FLARM transmitters directly and, of course, transmits to them too. It is a lot dearer though....
I also like that FLARM has built in collision avoidance algorithms but I believe that PAW does not.

In general, the virtual radar type displays are of little use, apart from entertainment value imho.
​​​​While flying, you do not need to know about all the (electronic) traffic around you but only the ones that might hit you!
​​​​​​
In addition, you should still be looking out the window nearly all of the time not at a screen inside the cockpit. That is why audio alerts are so important (about the real threats). Incidentally, although my Lightspeed headset has Bluetooth, I connect it's audio input (on battery box) by wire to PowerFLARM audio output for audio alerts. The other reason for looking out the window is that a lot of traffic still does not have electronic conspicuity (or incredibly, does not have it switched on) or the signal is not compatible with what you can pick up. And then, of course, there are drones and flocks of birds and the views!

ETOPS 25th Oct 2019 17:36


the virtual radar type displays are of little use
Not in my experience - the display is scalable to show just immediate threats. I run with minimum distance and heights above/below (as I mentioned) as a belt a braces back up to the aural alerts. A glance at that device takes a second and can be incorporated in a systematic external scan.

Mooneyboy - you can get ear bud type bluetooth headphones that can be worn under your DC headset to receive the voice call outs just as well as $1000 Bose units.

Genghis the Engineer 25th Oct 2019 17:50

I fly two light aeroplanes regularly, one with Rosetta one with Classic.

It's an excellent system, significantly aiding situational awareness, so long as it's well integrated into your scan, and not treated as the only means of traffic awareness and avoidance.

It DOES NOT see everything - offhand it sees about 3 times as many aeroplanes as my Mk.1 eyeball system does, but about every fifth aeroplane I see out of the window, PAW does not.

The Rosetta does seem to see less traffic than the classic, but the installations in the two aeroplanes are somewhat different, and odds are that's the reason, not the units themselves.

G

Shoestring Flyer 26th Oct 2019 07:52

There is a great danger of searching for traffic on a display becoming an obsession to the detriment of looking out of the outside and chatting with others about this indicates this is definitely a growing obsession!

TheOddOne 26th Oct 2019 16:16

Well, we fitted ADS-B 'out' to our aircraft a while ago but a popular aircraft tracking app shows we're seriously in the minority. I don't think it's worth investing in any 'in' technology until everyone's made by law to fit the same system. We enjoy a wonderful radar service where we get 'G-XX basic service. but...' with helpful advice on conflicting traffic. I've even (once) had 'G-XX turn right now for traffic', without the preamble because the controller thought it urgent enough. Actually, they were a little below us, but the controller wasn't to know that.

The value to us of ADS-B is for student de-briefing for solo navex, though a tablet with Skydemon is probably more accurate.

TOO

Mooneyboy 26th Oct 2019 20:12


Originally Posted by Shoestring Flyer (Post 10603708)
There is a great danger of searching for traffic on a display becoming an obsession to the detriment of looking out of the outside and chatting with others about this indicates this is definitely a growing obsession!


I agree but if used in a balanced way then certainly will be beneficial. Likewise with autopilots. There will be moments when you canít always be eyes out. For example if youíve been asked to orbit before entering controlled airspace and entering a squawk code. You will have your eyes down for a few seconds and having a system that might audibly tell you of approaching traffic will be beneficial to aircraft separation.

The other plus is it will be a backup to my gps that my phone has built in ( yes I do carry 1/2mil and 1/4mil charts as a backup, Iíve certainly seen gps signals disrupted especially in the eastern Med).

I donít understand what the aircraft tracking apps use. My flight was recorded on there and was only standard transponder ident. No ADS-B output. I do know the odd aircraft where not even a transponder is fitted.

ETOPS 27th Oct 2019 08:26


I donít understand what the aircraft tracking apps use.
They use MLAT - https://uk.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/

Discorde 3rd Jul 2020 16:07

Also thinking of installing Rosetta bluetoothed to SkyDemon. Current UK cost of purchase £325 inc VAT. Due lack of space it would have to sit on top of my panel. My xponder is Mode S. Any comments on efficacy of this arrangement? Is aerial location critical?

Thanks for info.

asyncio 3rd Jul 2020 19:16

The main issues with just having it sitting on the coaming is it blocking your view and it sliding about if you don't have some method of securing them. Also remember that you'll need a battery pack if you aren't able to plug it into the aircraft.
In my case, both it and the portable battery pack fit quite neatly down the side between the coaming and the screen, so they are out of the way and also have a good view of the sky.

I've never had any particular problem with antenna placement, the actual limiting factor appears to be the GPS getting a fix. But that's no worse than on a tablet or a phone in my experience.

BobD 4th Jul 2020 07:53


Originally Posted by Mooneyboy (Post 10603227)

Annoyingly I bought a DC headset a year and a half ago and decided against the Bluetooth.

If you search on the Fl*er Forum, there is someone who offers a Bluetooth conversion for DC headsets. I tried the ear bud method, but found it uncomfortable & fiddly, so bit the bullet and bought a SEHT Bluetooth headset.

BobD

ALTSEL 8th Jul 2020 09:20

We have just purchased a Pilotaware Rosetta to install in our group aircraft, having looked at its capabilities it looks very good. However it needs to me mounted securely in the cockpit and benefits greatly from the optional external antenna, equally a good quality power supply is essential - see PAW website comments.



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