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-   -   Renewing expired JAR PPL (A) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/617391-renewing-expired-jar-ppl.html)

chitty1989 18th Jan 2019 15:54

Renewing expired JAR PPL (A)
 
Hi All,

I havent flown since 2011 and subsequently my licence, class rating, medical and radio licence have all expired.

I understand that I will need to convert from my JAR PPL to the EASA PPL. Can anybody confirm what I need to do and in what order as I have come across conflicting information?

I need to renew;

Class 2 medical (Exp. 2015)
FRTOL (Exp. 2017)
PPL (Exp. 2017)
SEP Rating (Exp. 2010)

I am led to believe that it is cheaper to re validate my SEP first with an instructor / examiner and send of with my licence renewal at the same time, can anybody confirm if this is possible as an instructor at a flying school I visited today said they can no longer sign my JAR licence page.

Thanks.

chitty1989 18th Jan 2019 20:10

I think I may have answered all of my questions but if somebody could confirm?

Renew class 2 medical with AME

Assessment flight to confirm how many hours training required

Complete recommended training

Skills test for renewal of SEP rating
During skills test examiner to complete an Examiners Report confirming that I have demonstrated language proficiency at Level 6.

Send to CAA;
SRG1104 - Application to convert to EASA PPL
Examiners report confirming language level 6
Certificate of complete of SEP (Not sure which form it should be)
Payment and required ID docs etc

Magpie32 18th Jan 2019 21:18

I’ve just completed the very same as what your asking after not flying since Feb 2009. Paperwork all sent off today.

You’ll need to do the following:
1) Renew medical.
2) Complete ‘training as required’ to get you back to PPL competency level. It took me 5 hours of lessons covering stalls, steep turns, PFL, navigation and circuits.
3) Undertake proficiency check with an examiner covering the above.

Submit your EASA conversion (SRG1104) and rating renewal (SRG1119C) applications together and your new EASA licence will appear with a fresh SEP rating (just in time for Brexit ha). Apparently you won’t need to pay the rating fee since the licence is getting reissued anyway.
Other paperwork to submit includes:
1) Examiners report (SRG1157).
2) Language assessment form (SRG1199) signed by examiner confirming you’re level 6.
3) Certified copies of passport, medical and most recent ratings page.
4) Course completion certificate - either from flying school or official CAA form.

Only thing I didn’t need to do anything with is the FRTOL. I’m assuming it’ll automatically renew with the licence application.

Remember to bring your flying into the ‘21st centuary’ in regards to things like aviation law - supposedly alot has changed. Got advised yesterday in my skill test that a flight information service doesn’t exist anymore but instead is now either basic, traffic or deconflict service. Just wee niggly things like that.

Good luck.

chitty1989 18th Jan 2019 21:49

Absolutely fantastic response Magpie32! I really appreciated it.

I have spent all afternoon trawling through the CAA website and you have basically confirmed pretty much what I seem to have concluded.

To help you, from what I can gather, as long as you can prove your Level 4 or above, the FRTOL (SRG1199) is now part of your PPL rather than separate both with lifetime validity!

In the meantime I was going to start reading up about air law, navigation etc to update myself. If I remember rightly, the basic service etc just switched over as I stopped flying as I remember doing it a couple of times.

Once again, thank you for your info. Has really cleared it up for me.

Charlie Zulu 21st Jan 2019 14:28

I did just this April/May last year after having let my SEP lapse since 2006 on my UK CAA PPL(A). I was flying until 2011 on the basis of my FAA CPL/IR but hadn't flown since July 2011.

1) Renewed my EASA Class 2 Medical
2) Completed training as required which in my case was three hours in total, an hour each for general handling, circuits and a quick navigation exercise.
3) Once the ATO is satisfied you are ready for the SEP Proficiency Check they will need to complete the Course Completion Certificate SRG1107 - your Examiner will require this as a pre-requisite to the test.
3) Pass an SEP Proficiency Check which, whilst it isn't a PPL Skills Test, will include a little navigation leg with a diversion but it won't be as long or involved as the initial PPL Skills Test. It is only there to ensure you have the basics of navigation and get yourself around without getting lost and infringing controlled airspace etc.
4) The test includes an oral portion for the specific type of aircraft. For me this was "oh we need to do oral questions, er do you know how often maintenance checks are completed"? "Yes every 50 hours". "What happens during these checks?", "Drop the oil.." and before I could continue he said "that will do.".

Sent my paperwork off which included everything Magpie stated in the post above and five weeks later I was holding my new EASA PPL(A) and also a new version of my old UK CAA PPL(A) (as I ticked the box on the form to retain one).

In the UK, Flight Information Service wasn't around when you last flew and therefore you are probably familiar with Basic, Traffic and Deconfliction Services.

However, it may be wise to bring yourself up to speed with SERA - i.e. European Rules of the Air which came into effect in 2016 if I remember correctly. Take a look at CAA Skyway Code. I.e. VFR at Night is now a thing! This was a bit of a shock when I was plugged into Edinburgh ATC (best New Years Eve ever if you ask me spending the evening the Tower!) and heard my wife clear someone VFR at night into her zone. This was a few months before I regained my licence and therefore knew I had a bit of re-learning to do as well as looking at the bits I had long since forgotten.

chitty1989 21st Jan 2019 16:16

Thank you for that Charlie Zulu! In all fairness, with regards to Flight Information Service its the other way round. I don't remember much of Basic, Traffic and Deconfliction service as that came in just as I stopped flying if I remember rightly.

I have started to do some practice questions online for the PPL exams (just to test my knowledge) to try and bring it back up to date, looking up the questions I am not too sure about. It has already helped me find some changes that have happened!

Biggest shock for me was you can fly in uncontrolled airspace down to 1500m visibility under 140kts, clear of cloud and in sight of surface! That's quite low vis for VFR!

But overall, I guess most of it will just back to me once I'm back in the aircraft!

Many thanks for your response. I simply cannot wait to get back up in the air!

paulo 22nd Jan 2019 17:41


Originally Posted by Charlie Zulu (Post 10366394)
...will include a little navigation leg... but it won't be as long or involved as the initial PPL Skills Test.

What kind of planning was expected - the old whizz wheel and plotted before flight? - Or ad-hoc nav, i.e. given a destination after departure?

Magpie32 22nd Jan 2019 19:25


Originally Posted by paulo (Post 10367547)
What kind of planning was expected - the old whizz wheel and plotted before flight? - Or ad-hoc nav, i.e. given a destination after departure?

Given a leg in advance to plot on chart and calculate HDG and G/S etc.
At some point en route either at destination or before youíll be given an alternate destination which you need to re-plan for.
Examiner will want to know altitude, HDG and ETA for each leg.

Charlie Zulu 22nd Jan 2019 19:56

Sorry was a little late to reply but just to say Magpie covers my experience, one tip though is ask your examiner for his weight including clothing, baggage etc. for your W&B.

The route was given to me the night before and was a simple destination to find... a disused airfield which if you missed you’d be over the North Sea!! Once we got there it was upper air work which consisted of a full stall, departure stall and base to final stall both at the first sign. Steep Turns and then a PFL. The examiner then took control gave me the diversion point and asked for ETA etc. Gave me a nicely trimmed aircraft back to me. Once we arrived at the diversion point it was back to base for a couple of circuits. All done in 1 hr 15 mins brakes to brakes.

You will be just fine. I was getting myself worked up a little before the check but really is a check to ensure you’re still safe to be let loose once again, it was more of a nice bimble on a nice day with a friend along for the ride (first time I had met him though). The school will ensure you’re ready.

Whopity 22nd Jan 2019 22:10

There is no such thing as a mini Skill Test. For Renewals and Revalidation you complete a Proficiency Check. The format of which is given on SRG 1157.

paulo 28th Jan 2019 05:50

Iím hoping to revalidate on the basis of my JAR PPL issued in 2001.

Iíve now just checked and my old license says:

ďThis is license is to be renewed no later than 24/09/2006ď

I assume I can still go the route described above? I.e. Not have to do all the exams and the full skills test?

Anyone know?

(Might need to do the FRTO again, but not so concerned about that, cost & time not too onerous).

Jhieminga 28th Jan 2019 09:11

You can still use the same route: get your medical in order, get an ATO to sign off on the training needed and do a proficiency check. The only difference is that you will have to get a new piece of paper issued to you by the authorities before you can set off on your own. The old license renewal date on the JAR licences ony applied to the bits of paper themselves.

I'll leave it to someone else to advise you on the specifics relating to the UK situation, as I'm not up to speed on that.

paulo 28th Jan 2019 10:09


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 10373173)
You can still use the same route: get your medical in order, get an ATO to sign off on the training needed and do a proficiency check. The only difference is that you will have to get a new piece of paper issued to you by the authorities before you can set off on your own. The old license renewal date on the JAR licences ony applied to the bits of paper themselves.

I'll leave it to someone else to advise you on the specifics relating to the UK situation, as I'm not up to speed on that.

Thanks, sounds reassuring.

(Iíve also just now emailed CAA FCL, to double check. Am also looking to downgrade to LAPL, which Iíve heard can be done all in the same process)

paulo 28th Jan 2019 11:22

Ugh...

CAA FCL have replied saying I have renew as EASA PPL, and only after that do the downgrade.

I think theyíve misunderstood my question. Saying I canít hold two licenses at once etc etc.

My LAPL medical is in 90 minutes, and may be useless. Grrr. If theyíre right, Iíll be kicking myself for not checking.

paulo 28th Jan 2019 12:20

CAA confusion abounds.

They now say I donít need to renew my PPL.

But I havenít flown since 2002!


js11 28th Jan 2019 18:52


Originally Posted by Charlie Zulu (Post 10366394)
...and five weeks later I was holding my new EASA PPL(A) and also a new version of my old UK CAA PPL(A) (as I ticked the box on the form to retain one)..

In a similar position - UK PPL(A) with a long lapsed SEP rating - now working my way back towards a SEP proficiency check but wondering if I should tick the box when it comes to license conversion. Does this get you a full-fat, ICAO standard, UK PPL(A) with a SEP (i.e. like my existing pre-JAA license) or is it a NPPL/SSEA? Conscious what with Brexit and the ability to keep a nationally issued PPL current with 3-axis microlight time (something the Part-FCL PPL doesn't recognize as far as I know), this might be the more useful license of the two for me to be holding come April.

Magpie32 5th Feb 2019 20:50

Quick update. I now have possession of my new EASA PPL. CAA received the application on 21st Jan and I received it back on 5th Feb. So a fairly quick turnaround considering all thatís going on down there now.

On a side note, do you actually need to have your licence (and medical) on your person everytime you go flying?

ETOPS 6th Feb 2019 07:28

Magpie



do you actually need to have your licence (and medical) on your person everytime you go flying?
Yes - all here.....................


https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...g-regulations/

Maoraigh1 6th Feb 2019 19:40

You must have the documents in the aircraft. Mine are usually in my flight bag.

TheOddOne 6th Feb 2019 22:02

...and a photo ID!

TOO


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