Aircraft Share Group/Syndicate WANTED + Questions
 

Hi All,

I am looking for a share in aircraft, preferably close to North London, but would consider anything between London and Peterborough. I was wondering if people know the best place to look? I have seen UKGA site, and other than that I'm not sure where to look, as there doesn't seem that much about. Is there a "main" site which I am missing? Or is it just rare for shares to come up?

Ideally I am looking for a 1/6th share or similar, as I would like the availability to take the aircraft away for a day/weekend at a time, and very occasionally longer. I have considered getting a cheap aircraft for 20k or so and making my own syndicate, but appreciate this could be a lot of hassle, and potentially very risky. My preference is to spend more on the share and get a lower hourly rate, so something like a LAA Permit aircraft.

I would appreciate any tips on where to search, or if anyone knows of any one looking to sell a share, please let me know,

Thanks

PS

Shares in Permit aircraft appear to be as rare as smowflakes in June - I've been looking for such for about a year. They don't have much but, you could start with the LAA website. Another site is AFORS. Popham airfield have an advertising board by the clubhouse with a large number of a mixed variety of ads. You've mentioned UKGA which, in any case, feature more non Permit a/c than Permit.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for reply. I did wonder why not every one gets a permit aircraft, as they're much cheaper to run by the looks of things, and seem to be more modern as well. I guess its because they're rare...

Well if any one in North London is interested in clubbing together as a group of 6 to buy one please let me know.

I'll keep a look out on the sites you mentioned as well.

Thanks!

The more modern ones are by no means cheap. Also they are usually (but not entirely) 2-seaters. There aren't many 4-seaters available on Permit.

In my view it's about what your mission is and for some Permit will be right and for others CofA is better.

Thanks for the reply. I initially need to build hours for my CPL, and then I would like to retain the aircraft for trips away, including Europe. A two seat would suit me fine, I think it is rare where I would have more people wanting to join me. I guess I would rather have a higher initial purchase cost, and lower hourly rate..as I would be far more likely to enjoy flying the thing if I know its only costing me £50 an hour, rather than £100 +. Also obviously there is savings from the maintenance.

I've not seen any non equity groups being advertised as having one, is there any specific reason for this? Other than initial cost?

Don't forget to include hangarage (or outside parking), depreciation insurance and so on in your hourly cost. Parking (inside or out) is insanely expensive in the London area. It MIGHT even be cheaper to go further out - Conington's a good spot to begin. Start a spread sheet and put in ALL the costs associated with running an aircraft, include your projected annual hours and see which of your options are cheapest. If you do less than 50 hours a year, it's usually MUCH cheaper to rent from a school! Most people seem to hide their heads in the sand when it comes to costs of running a plane.

I still think the most cost-effective solution for your hours-building is a Cessna 150. Hourly fuel is 18 litres, comparable with most 'plastic fantastic' machines. It's far more robust than many permit aircraft and you can pick up quite a nice one for £15-20K. You'll get your money back when you're done with it. Maintenance is a little more, but not too bad if you can genuinely do some of it yourself. You can also do your night and possibly most of your IR(R) rating in it, too, an excellent way of gaining hours rather than just making holes in the sky.

I've been privileged to fly in a number of the noseleg permit aircraft around and most of them are less straightforward to fly than the C150. They might go quite a bit faster than a C150, but when you're hours-building, you're really NOT interested in speed, just time!

TOO

PS

I saw the light more than twenty years ago and moved from certified to Permit. The savings have been more than enough to enable me to fly many more hours than would otherwise have been the case. During that time I've owned two metal a/c which lived outside on a tiedown thus saving one of the most expensive components of flying - hangarage.

I've done most of the maintenance myself and I'm far from being an engineer ! The a/c I bought were slightly more expensive than a tidy 152/150 = £30k and £18 respectively. Running costs were a fraction of those incurred with a certified job. My last invoice for the Annual on a Robin HR100/200 was a staggering whisker under £10k - for what? Nothing major that would account for that sum that's for sure.

I went on to sell shares in both a/c. They were snapped up very quickly.

Thanks for this, and oddball also. It seems to me that if I could find the money to buy one outright, I would have no problem selling off the shares...if only. I'll keep looking, hopefully something will come up.

Visiting airfields and talking to people, and contacting local LAA Strut/Clubs would be good methods to locate Permit shares. There are often people who would sell IF they heard of a buyer.

Thats a great idea.. I will do that.

On a separate note, since there seem to be more people reading this post than the other I put up regarding it; I assume Permit aircraft hours can be used towards my minimum PIC hours needed for CPL course? I'm sure they can, just would be good to confirm.

PS

I know of shares going in two syndicates in that general vicinity.

There's a PA28-151 group at Cranfield that's expanding: £1200 share, £40/month, £100/hr tacho (so probably nearer £85/logged)

There's an AA5 Traveller group at Cranfield that's currently underflown, £2k share, £80/hr tacho (so probably around £70/logged) and £52/month.


I'm not in either group, but have instructed for both and use the PA28 occasionally through a reciprocal agreement with a syndicate that I am in - I can recommend both as good well run groups, neither of whom will have a problem with your occasionally taking the aeroplane away for a few days.

Turweston is by far the friendlier airfield, and operates for longer hours - but is also a pain in the backside to get to and has no instrument approaches or (I think) runway lighting.

If you want putting in touch with either, just let me know. My PM box is full, but email me and I'll get it.

G

This is a difficult and contentious issue at the moment - whilst it's not quite happened yet, EASA appear hellbent on stopping anybody using hours in non-EASA aeroplanes to maintain or obtain EASA licences. I think that whilst I've done loads of permit flying and agree that there are some great aeroplanes - what you need is probably something with an EASA CofA.


Oh, by the way, I'd also recommend dropping in and looking at the notice board at White Waltham, and looking at www.afors.com

G

Thanks for this...that is probably the most promising site I have seen so far. And the information on the permit hours building is interesting also, no one seems to have a solid answer on it.

Is Turweston too far west? It's less far north than Peterborough and near to fast roads (M40 then A43). It really depends whether your North London is near the M11, the A1 or the M40.

If Turweston were any use to you, we have room in our AA-5 there. We relocated it from Cranfield (because Cranfield had become just too badly run while Turweston is excellently run. If I want lights or an IAP, I pop over to Oxford). The reasons for having space are that Turweston did not work for everyone geographically plus we did have one member lose their husband and with it their enthusiasm for flying.

Details here:

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=106939

I have been a member for two and a half years, have taken it to all sorts of places, including Poland. Just today, we are back from a night at Perranporth.

Permit Share
 

This actually looks like exactly what I am looking for...however it is just a bit too far... it would be over 3.5 hour round trip driving. Peterborough I don't mind driving to as I have my parents there, so I can stay there for the weekend, and kill 2 birds with one stone. Thanks any way!

I have just taken another look at the map... its not that far I guess. I'll send you a PM, it would be good to have chat.

Thanks

PS