Making gliders visible to GA aircraft
 

Please consider making a donation to help upgrade the OGN network in areas we all frequently fly so that gliders can be seen on the PilotAware traffic awareness system increasingly carried by General Aviation aircraft. To do so, go to http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfundi...derconspicuity (or go to JustGiving.com and search “Make gliders more visible”)

Forumites will be familiar with both PilotAware and Flarm. The number of GA aircraft with PilotAware systems is growing quickly, since the cost of a unit is low – less than £200. However, the two systems can't see each other, which is frustrating.

Following the fatal collision between a Junior and a Cessna near HusBos a year or so ago, the two teams involved in these systems got together to provide at least some of the solution. By upgrading the OGN ground stations, and adding a PilotAware capability, General Aviation (GA) aircraft with PilotAware can be alerted to the position of gliders in their vicinity.

I think that this is smart thing to do – better visibility of gliders to the GA world has to be a good thing, and the overall cost is fairly low.

So I’m working with the PilotAware team to try and get a good proportion of the OGN receivers in the UK upgraded to provide this functionality for this year’s flying season. I should emphasise that I’m not doing this as a commercial venture – merely as a public good.

Some people who run OGN stations are able and prepared to cover the cost of this upgrade (between £110 and £230). However, it would be extremely useful to have funds available to upgrade some receivers where this is not the case. If we can raise £5000 that should allow us to upgrade around thirty receivers that would otherwise not have been done.

Your help will be much appreciated.

[The presentation given on this at the recent BGA conference can be seen at https://tinyurl.com/yayb6h9y ]

With thanks

Paul

Here's how to make gliders visible to GA: PAINT THE ******* THINGS BLACK!

It would certainly have the effect of reducing the threat when the wings softened and folded up!

Paul

Hi Paul,

A laudable effort, but until EVERY airborne vehicle of whatever type, with or without a human on board, is equipped with a common system, mandated by law, then I'm afraid that we're still as much at risk. I suggest that the effort ought instead to be put into developing a cheaper ADS-B and effectively lobbying to make it the law that everyone MUST have a working unit whilst airborne. Personally, until someone makes me change it, I'll still be using my Mode C transponder.
It took legislation to make the airlines fit TCAS II. It'll take the same to make us change to ABS-B.

TOO

OK, we have flarm, transponders, Pilot Aware and ADSB.

As I understand it:

A Pilot Aware linked to a Mode S transponder will give you ADSB-out. Not the super-fancy ultra-compliant one, but still an ADSB out. The connecting lead is about 100 quid. The Pilot Aware about 200. Bits and bobs another 100 and then the cost of the tablet. Full explanation here: http://www.pilotaware.com/pilotawareintroduction/

So it brings together most of what TOO would like.

(of course, there will still be people with no transponder etc...)

We are putting a Pilot Aware ground station and a Flarm receiver at Strathaven Airfield, and quite a few of the folk here have been buying Pilot Aware.

I, personally, think it goes quite a long way to achieving a "common" system (yes, I am fully aware that it is actually a cobbled-together amalgam of all sorts of systems)

Better electronic identification obviously, and of course good lookout, if GA pilots are that concerned buy a Flarm receiver, otherwise stay well clear of cloud base and gliding sites. Thankfully collisions are rare, although close encounters between gliders is frequent, they are a much greater threat to each other.

Strange how modern helicopter rotor blades are commonly made of composite fibre and they're painted black....

By their very nature I have identified gliders as my number one collision risk so part of my avionic upgrade is to fit a powerflarm.

The best thing about this bit of kit is it is compatible with the Garmin screen in my Aircraft and it will Bluetooth high quality GPS to my iPad ( not that the iPad seems to need it ) so I can take full advantage of my Jepp software.

Yes I know - I was just giving the obvious response to the thread title. Here would be the next obvious responses:

(1) Make the wings thicker - they're a right b*gg*r to see head on.

(2) Teach them how to fly straight and level - once you have acquired a glider, you look away for a couple of seconds, and you look back, and you can't find it, because it's not where it should be, a couple of seconds further along a steady trajectory.

(3) Get them to slow down.

Once Upon A Time I had spotted some gliders, so was aware that they were around, but when I looked back they'd turned towards me, and one of them went, oh, maybe a hundred feet above me and the other maybe a hundred feet below, both bloody fast. I formed the opinion that they both had me in sight and had decided to take the piss ... in which case there was no danger of collision and nothing to worry about.

If I was operating a light aircraft in the South of England I would have Flarm, you are never going to see a modern glider head on approaching at 100 knots, you are relying on him or her seeing you. That is the technology available now and will be used widely for the next 5 or 10 yrs, have a look at the BGA Ladder, gliding is very competitive and speed scores a lot of points.

Composite structures used in aircraft are usually cured in an oven as part of the manufacturing process. Heating in-service to temperatures lower than that used for curing do not cause a problem, heating to higher temperatures may lead to temporary weakening of the structure and deformation.

Helicopter blades are likely to have been cured to at least 125 degrees C, wheras glider structures to perhaps only 54 degrees C. Because of the somewhat lower temperatures used for curing gliders they need to be finished in light colours. (No, I don't know why they don't use higher temperatures for gliders!)

I am an opponent to all theses tinkerboxes. With current avionics there is not reason not to put a transponder in a glider and folks - switch it ON!

Apart from availability of cash and electrical power supply for potentially many hours of XC flying.

It's always so easy when it's somebody else's physics problem and cash.

I've got one. I switch it on. It is almost irrelevant to the ability of GA traffic to see me. A tinkerbox though, that just might work!

Paul

Jim 59
 

I hope you never get to fly a glider that has had the primary structure post cured at 59 Degrees C. Most of the resin manufacturers specify 80 degrees C for about four hours following eight hours at 60 degrees C.

It seems I may be out of date then, I referred to the repair instructions for a glider manufactured in the early 1970s. Principle is unchanged - they are cured to lower temperatures than blades - based on published data.

I have ADSB out via my txpdr and a pilot aware that currently picks up mode c,s,adsb and ogn network, what pisses me off is the amount of pilots that I know have mode c or s fitted to their aircraft, that seem allergic to turning the knob to ALT.

Not only that but they are breaking the SERA rules of the air for which there are penalties if reported.

A&C
The most common resin system for glider repair is Schueffler L285 with H286 hardener.

Their instructions state:"To conform to their respective airworthiness requirement, gliders and motor-gliders should be post-cured for a minimum of 10 hours at 50-55C,
and powered aircraft for a minimum of 10 hours at 80-85C. This is after initial room temperature cure. Actual good practice for gliders is 15 hours at 56-60C.

I believe the Epikote162 /Laromin resins used a slightly lower recommended post-cure temperature, but this resin is now no longer permitted in EU countries because of its carginocenic properties.

I've never understood that either. If you've got it, use it. Mid air is my greatest flying fear, anything that says 'Hey I'm here!!!!' has got to be good.

Unless you're running contraband of course.