Simulator Use
 

Hi All,

Just looking for some opinions on how beneficial using a simulator during the early ish stages of the ppl ? Practicing procedures and what not when cancellations are in abundance due to the weather.

Thanks in advance

I don't think it can do any harm, as long as you employ the correct methods as taught by your instructor. I used to 'fly' the 747 on long flights, using just the auto pilot, from T/O to Landing. I also used to shadow commercial aircraft, by listening to them on a scanner, and doing the same on my Flight-Sim. (had to keep the speed similar.)
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I do not believe it's of any use if you already understand that pushing forwards lowers the nose, pulling up raises the nose etc. i.e. not completely oblivious to how an aircraft works.

When reaching nav and radio navigation it can be useful to create a PLOG, fly your route etc.

You would be better served by spending time on theory and really getting to grips with it (not just doing enough to pass the exams). I'm not implying that would be your approach but really understanding the theory does help with the practical stuff too.

Students that have spent a lot of time on PC simulators tend to be fixated on the instruments and it takes a long time to break the habit so I discourage it for my students. PC sims are great for radio nav practice but that is quite a way into the syllabus.

How does that help anyone starting a PPL?

Currently on 14.5hrs and 6/9 exams passed just prior to first solo, I envisage its a good idea as you've mentioned prior to the nav work so you feel more comfortable perhaps when it comes to the real deal. I just wasn't sure how beneficial it would be at this stage of training considering its essentially going over the basics / nothing too complex that hasn't been committed to memory. I was more interested in opinion of those with more experience than myself to offer some pointers as to if it would help develop my piloting skills :)

Completely agree, for example with my flight being cancelled today I brushed up on Meteorology despite passing the exam with 93% for instance rather than pushing on with PoF.

I might not have been clear so apologies, I meant a full flight simulator at the school I'm learning at as opposed to a PC one. The reading I have done though tends to suggest people pick up bad habits and rely on instruments too much.

We were lucky enough to acquire a Frasca 142 simulator earlier in the year. We use this for practicing the applied stages of instrument flight, for which it is superb. It is pretty useless for post PPL students who haven't yet started their IMC/IR(R) courses or indeed for those in the early stages of such a course. I'd strongly advise against any students who have yet to gain their PPLs going anywhere near such a device, even when the weather clamps in for seemingly weeks on end, as recently.

In order to become competent at instrument flight, I feel that you need to be able to fly in VMC and compare what the picture outside is like and what the instruments are showing you. Then develop basic selective scan skills, before moving on to the applied stuff, where a simulator might be beneficial.

As advised above, spend time reading and practicing test papers etc, ready for the exams.

I too totally concur. I had spent hours and hours playing u$ FS and it took my poor instructors endless patience to get my eyes away from the instruments. I'll never forget the one who, in despair, put an A4 sheet before the instruments to force me to look outside. Which, by the way, makes an excellent exercise for any pilot (the A4 sheet, I mean).

Yup. Simulators for IR/IMC training. Real world for VFR anything.

Superb informative answer. Taken onboard! Thankyou

I started my PPL having significant time flying on flight sim beforehand, particularly online on VATSIM etc., "flying" the 737 all over Europe. I did this for 10+ years, starting at a very young age, always trying to learn more and more. I learned a lot about various aspects of aviation: the principles of flight, techniques of flying an aircraft, IFR navigation, aircraft systems etc. I always just tried to fly the sim like a real pilot would fly the real aircraft. I learned a whole lot about flying in general (as well as a lot of things specific to a 737!) which made the PPL exams a non-issue. VATSIM in particular, whilst it can enforce bad habits, was invaluable when it came to R/T.

I think the whole thing about "sim pilots stare at the instruments too much" has credibility to a point, however I learned quickly within the first couple of lessons what VFR flying is all about. My instructor was a younger guy, and a big fan of flight simulator. One of the first questions he actually asked me if I used flight sim or not. After discussing various aspects of the sim and how I used it, he was more than happy to let me use the radio, taxi, take off and even (attempt) a landing on my first lesson. Throughout the PPL course, I very rarely had to be taught anything about R/T or general flying technique. The thing which I had to study the most was: VFR navigation, flight planning, mass and balance calcs, wind correction, etc. - things which you don't tend to do in the simulator.

I am certainly not trying to toot my own trumpet here, everyone is different, I am an engineer now and it probably shows in how obsessive I was in learned everything I could about anything aviation. I always took the sim quite seriously when it came to "getting it right", and not everyone will be like that. However, I did manage to get my licence in minimum hours with a first time pass - which I credit to my experience with the sim to a large degree, and also my instructor's ability to harness what I had learned and apply it to the real world.

Hope this helps.

The right FTD may be useful for some specific non-instrument work as well.

In my view a full-size unit that reasonably emulates the machine a student will be using is useful for initial familiarisation and mnemonic work.

I have also witnessed significant improvements in students who have used a FTD to deal with certain aspects of flying that they were having issues with - for example crosswind landing. The ability to pause, rerun etc just on the base leg has proven to be invaluable for some...

If you already have a decent flight sim, then loading in an aircraft as close as possible to what you will be flying (in most cases, you'll be able to get an identical one right down to the panel)
Will let you figure out where everything is, you can do proper "Hanger" flying and get familiar with your surroundings.
You can play with manifold pressure, throttle, prop settings and see what they do in an environment where you are not going to break anything.

Sims are great places to practise everything.

PPL instructor with 1500 hrs + FI time;

I'm sure there is the odd student who will benefit greatly from using a sim in the early stages of their PPL; but I never met that gal/guy...

...I did meet plenty of people that had used flight sim or whatever, and whilst there were top marks for enthusiasm, their utter obsession with staring at the dials prolonged their training; it took waay more time to get them out of that habit than it should have. The early phases of PPL training centre around attitude flying; this is crucial. If you've already gotten into the habit of flying on simulated dials, it will most likely be harder to learn.

Sure, you can learn about radios/mixture controls etc. But the utility of doing that on a computer screen is no more than reading about it in a book.

Leave it until you're doing instrument flying. Before that, don't. Plenty of other things you can be usefully doing to help your training along :ok:

They are pretty good for IFR training. But you need the proper planning, maps and procedures. Teaching yourself might just teach you wrong habits.

Look at historical Link trainers and how simple they were. Still good enough to train bomber pilots for serious stuff in WWII.

There seems to be an almost universal opinion in instructor circles, that home built simulators are bad.

Unsupervised use of any sim will of course reinforce and embed any small mistakes because you get away with them.

Just like the millions of pounds worth of full motion airliner sim, you will get more out of it if someone is watching you and checking your actions against a list. I was lucky enough to be able to persuade my wife to assist by watching and listening for various actions.

The staring at instruments is an old fashioned issue, easily avoided by use of photo realistic scenery and no instrument panel. Just "fly" the machine based on what you can see out of the window.

A simple key press will show/hide the panel and allow the student to plod along without the distraction of instruments and gauges.

I wonder how many of the instructors who are against the use of sims, have experience of the latest thing available to students.

Simulators, whether BATDs or Level D FFSs are only training tools and provided the tool is used for its purpose, it will provide meaningful benefit. Outside of this, it will provide no benefit.

It is certainly better to do some IFR sim flying to keep "current" than to not fly at all over the winter or similar. More routine emergency decision making might be some good use as well.

VFR sim flying might be only good for preparation, like how valleys look from above or runway layouts. But I don't see PC sim "feels and looks" come close to any real airplane. Just compare taxiing in a real C172 versus taxiing on your PC. Or winds, gusts and such. Way too complex for small computers. And you need to have some guarantee that the airplane behavior is similar to the real thing. Only very few sims are technically, physically driven aside from "gaming" and "eye candy". Some are even modeling the passenger cabin experience better than the flying and piloting itself.

Many of us. Staring at instruments is most certainly not an old fashioned issue. You seem to be challenging the experience that most of us have with students coming to the real world of flying from simulators. I can assure you that I’m not imagining the fixation with instruments and other poor habits. PPL level simulators have their place. They are good instrument procedural trainers and can help get your mind around RNAV. However, as you suggest, to get the most out of them at that stage of training you do need supervision, but with the greatest respect to your wife, from an instructor.

My point is that the student's instrument fixation issue you have identified is possibly more prevalent with students who have used a PC Sim with a full panel on display. When you educate them to use is as a proper vfr only aid, they should not be so instrument centric, as their sim experience has none.