Few questions from a newbie
 

Hi everyone, totally new to the world of flying. I hope you don't mind me asking a number of straightforward questions? I have tried googling and doing my own research but can't get a decent answer or one that's relevant to the UK.

Assuming all of the below is based on a PA28 (although not all aircraft specific). So here goes;

1) Most used aircraft I see for sale are from the 60s or 70s. Is this the norm for private pilots and aircraft used for PPL etc?

2) How does aviation insurance work? Is it personal or for every aircraft or a combination of the both? And how much would a newly qualified pilot expect to pay?

3) Can you fly between any two aerodromes and what, if any, restrictions are there to this for private pilots?

4) Can you take-off/land an aircraft outside an aerodrome in a non-emergency situation? For example, if you had your own private land that was suitable for this purpose?

5) Are there any airports that forbid private pilots entirely? I presume the likes of Heathrow do. Only ask this because I know Liverpool John Lennon is used for PPL so just wondering where the 'line' is drawn as so to speak.

6) How much is it to hangar and what's the price difference between your permanent hangar and one at an aerodrome you are visiting?

7) How much 'non-flying' time to you have to factor into a journey from the moment you arrive at an aerodrome to leaving the destination aerodrome assuming you are leaving your aircraft there for some time.

I've got loads more but I think it will be a bit much at this point. Thanks for your patience and I hope some of the questions have given you a bit of a laugh!

1. Yes, most folk fly fairly old aircraft. New aircraft are of course available but the price difference is huge.
2. Dependent on pilot and aircraft. A new pilot flying a non controversial common type might pay around £2.5k p.a.
3. Yes. Aerodromes are there to be flown between. Some larger airports, eg Heathrow are not available to light aircraft or are cost prohibitive.
4. Yes. There are many farm strip flyers.
5. See above.
6. Hangarage can vary between a few hundred a year up to £8k p.a. At large regional airports. I suppose maybe around £2k p.a. might be reasonable at a typical general aviation airfield.
7. I usually allow 30 minutes pre flight preparation at the airfield for a flight where I have not checked the aircraft for a while. Maybe just a few minutes following a very recent landing.

My insurance is split into a) hull coverage (the equivalent of fully comprehensive for a car) which can be anywhere between 1 and 2% of the replacement value and b) CSL coverage (combined single limit) which covers you 3rd party against damage caused to others (this can be passengers, can also be 3rd parties because (e.g.) you crash into their building.... My total cost for insurance coverage for a 2004 Cirrus SR20 is around €2400 a year.

There are restrictions such as airspace. You couldn't fly at will directly from (e.g.) Denham to Fairoaks because of Heathrow Control Zone - instead you'd either have to route around their control zone or request a transit.

In UK, only two airports actually refuse to accept single engine GA - Heathrow and London City. For the rest, the question is one of cost. If you were prepared to pay more than 1500 quid to land at Gatwick, fill your boots.

However, that is not to say that if you had an emergency, you would be left facing huge landing fees because a regional airport was the only option. Quite a few of the airports subscribe to the Strasser Scheme which allows a pilot facing a genuine emergency to land without being bankrupted by landing fees.

Hangarage is very much dependent on supply and demand. I pay €220 a month for hangarage, others pay more but have better service - for example, their aircraft is brought in and out of the hangar.

Usually, if I'm away for a night and it looks like it's going to be stormy, I'll ask for hangarage, if not, I'll just tie her down.

The costs very much depends on the airport itself and have varied between €8 and €25 a night - but even if they have a fee for hangarage, there is no guarantee you will get some because hangars at some airfield are full. However, if a storm is forecast, I find that usually they make some space available.

Preflights usually take around 30 minutes. On arrival, there's also documentation to be completed - aircraft log book, pilot log book, cleaning of the plane and that can take anything from 10 minutes to 25 minutes.

One thing you should be aware that the preflight does not include the actual flight planning such as route calculation, weight and balance checks, fuel loads, checking NOTAMs, entering flight plans (if necessary). This I generally do at home and I reckon I spend about 30 minutes ensuring that my route is ok in terms of weather, NOTAMs, airspace and so forth.

Yes - newer aeroplanes are rarer and pricier, or sold as kits.

Generally for the aeroplane, with possibly an increased excess for new pilots. 10%ish of aircraft value per year is probably in the right ballpark.


Yes, and not many. Sometimes you need to phone for permission, but it's hardly ever refused. Some issues may exist concerning entering controlled airspace, but they are usually solvable with minimal pain.


Yes with the land owners permission. In the England and Wales, if you do this less than 28 days per year, it's not considered a change of use of the land so it's not normally a planning issue either.


A few of the big internationals don't want you (Heathrow for example) and a few regionals don't want you but basically price themselves so you don't try (e.g. Aberdeen). Again however, most places aren't a problem. For something PA28 sized, if you reckon on £10-£30 to land, and £20ish/night parking you're probably in the right ballpark.


Hangarage costs vary massively - around me £75-£400/month depending upon where. This is why so many aeroplanes are stored outdoors on tie-downs. Hangarage is rarely available for visitors anywhere, but tie-downs are almost always available.


90 minutes before and 30 minutes after is a reasonable guess.

NP - they're all perfectly reasonable questions.

G

You said PA28.
But many of the answers would have been different if you had said, for example, three axis microlight (some more favourable, some less so). It depends a lot on what you want your flying to do for you.
Tell us what you'd like to do. Although be warned if you are new to this game - many people end up in a very different place than where they expect to be because they find particular passions once they are started (like aerobatics for example).

Thanks for all your replies, very insightful and encouraging as well.

I didn’t think about tieing down as opposed to hangaring. What is the difference in price for this and what are the potential repercussions of leaving it tied down and then some freak weather comes in i.e. is it easy to move it somewhere safer in time?

I’ve always wanted to do my PPL but various things (mainly money) have got in the way. I’ve only looked into doing it again recently because I’ve been considering flying as a career. But the more I’ve read about it the more I’ve realised it’s probably not for me so just focusing on my PPL for now with a view to either owning my own aircraft or more likely being part of a time share agreement. So I’m absolutely open to trying different things and seeing where my passion lies. I only said PA28 because it’s a common aircraft and I figured a lot of the costs would be dependent on the aircraft type.

Thanks again and sorry if my replies are late, my posts are still being moderated.

Just picking up on a few points....

- Tie downs are invariably cheaper than hangarage, perhaps a little, perhaps a quarter the price. Some aeroplanes (anything fabric covered or with significant wood in the structure for example) I'd avoid tie-downs absolutely. For an all metal flying school workhorse, it'll need cleaning more often, de-icing in the winter, and a good set of covers - but tying down is relatively harmless.

- Sharing an aeroplane (buying into an existing syndicate more likely) works for a great many of us.

- Even if you were dead set on "going pro" my strong recommendation would be to do a PPL first then re-assess regardless. Until you have done that, or something very similar, you just don't know if you have the motivation and aptitude - or frankly, enjoy it enough.

- The PA28 is a good enough baseline for your thinking. For purely recreational flying you can probably pay a third its overall running costs. There isn't really an upper limit on what you can spend on hobby flying.

G

3) Can you fly between any two aerodromes and what, if any, restrictions are there to this for private pilots?

Basically yes, but there are some points to observe:
* as already stated, some may be prohibitively expensive
* some may be outright forbidden, mainly military
* perhaps stating the obvious but the field needs to suit the plane, i.e. minimum runway requirement
* some may not fit your requirements, perhaps fuel, perhaps food/drink

As a general rule, it is a good idea to phone any field you intend to fly into. Some even require this, the so-called PPR (much hated by some, though I cannot see any good reason to).

The 60s and 70s were some kind of golden age for General Aviation, people were open for alternative travel and adventure. So, yes, everybody flying on budget is going 60s, 70s and some early 80s airplanes. These are also the sweet spot aircraft, as they were meant to fly primarily - after the cesura mid-80s to late-90s, were ecoterrorism and stupid insurance laws almost killed any prospect, the aircraft became fat and blinkyblinky ...
Usually insurance is on the aircraft. If you go basic liability insurance starts at about 500 per year.
It depends. If you stay in one country and stay clear of PPR and slotted airports, you may go on your own discretion in most cases.
It depends on the country, some do allow that, other want to shoot you in the back for it.
Yes, there are such airports.
Usually on visiting the aircraft stays outside and parking is about the same as the permanent hangar per day. Prices vary vastly, from small change locations to real expensive ones. I suspect the usual hangar comes for a few hundreds a month.
You point to pre-flight and post-flight times? It depends. For a SEP I would estimate the sum of both being about one to two hours. Some prefer doing caretime before flight, others after, so it is hard to give numbers separate.