There is one other UK forum - or, more precisely, a forum run by Brits people though it aims/claims to be pan-European - where I used to post, under the same nickname. I cannot remember this matter was discussed there recently; but if it was, I have almost certainly added similar comments there.

PS should anybody wonder, this nickname is chosen in reverence to an early Belgian ace aviator; and also in self-mockery, because the real Jan was a first-class daredevil and myself am rather at the other end of the scale...

The Antwerp Devil. Do you also ride a motorcycle?

I have many fond memories of travelling through Belgium. I even stopped once. For fuel.

Well now you've all had some fun bashing 'Johnny Foreigner', anyone want to stand up and justify the existence of MATZ? The Basic 'Service' where you might or might not get a traffic warning? The Traffic service where if it is busy you will not get a service? How about the conduct of commercial air traffic IFR in Class G without radar cover?

There are a lot of things which when viewed from a distance make little sense.

It all boils down to money. Some of us are old enough to recall 30 odd years ago or more where the UK had military master diversion airfields which were open H24, fully manned and equipped with surveillance and talk down radar and also the ability to lay a foam carpet within 30 minutes if you needed to do a wheels up landing.

Now because of a paucity of such stations which are open H24 (peacetime Air Force now where the enemy doesn't attack at the weekends, bank holidays or outside office hours) there are times when vast swathes of the FIR is devoid of any radar service.

I'm sure the relevant authorities would say H24 radar service would be available if we paid for it but how much would they want to charge airspace users?

I realise this is easy to say but those operators have a choice whether or not they operate into airfields and on routes outside controlled airspace and/or radar cover. Do we as GA pilots want more controlled airspace? (I fully appreciate that for commercial reasons those operators choose to operate in Class G!)

Hi All, yes GB cannot accommodate any invading armies outside 'office hours'.


However one bit of creeping bureaucracy has gone unmentioned, Hawarden now has a Radio Mandatory Zone RMZ. If all the Matz areas eventually follow suit, that could change the situation.
.

Does anyone apart from me remember UHMRA?

Maybe everyone would prefer a 'blanket' of Class E in the more congested parts of the country; I'm sure the IFR public transport operators would.

Speaking as one who doesn't really have a choice about the lack of radar cover to get the job done, despite being often required to fly IFR in class G airspace, I'd certainly rather have the facility than not. Unfortunately, there is now a big gap right in the middle of UK which didn't exist until the last few years.

I see no need for Class E, just a better LARS coverage to fill the gaps.

What, the one on 128.55 Mc/s?....Nah....

So no takers in justifying MATZ?


The Upper Heyford thing was at least an attempt to give some rationale to things - however skewed!

And operators can chose to operate IFR in Class G with no radar? Why would any responsible regulator allow that - paying customers without the basic protection which they passengers largely all expect?

At the end of the day if regional airports want commercial traffic there has to be a minimum level of service - that is mandatory on the ground - but staggeringly not in the air........

ISTR that establishment of MATZs was the result of a 'career development' project by a Flight Lieutenant some five decades ago. From my experience of providing approach radar service for a MoD-Air MATZ the dimensions certainly did not afford 'protection' for much of its traffic. To civil operators MATZs are neither one thing nor the other, and, as such, are simply a nuisance to all. If the Military wants to operate in a known traffic environment it will require appropriate regulated airspace designed to accommodate the instrument traffic patterns of individual bases. The standard MATZ dimensions do not do this. One size does not fit all, and its rules do not apply to all airspace users. Consequently the depiction of MATZs on civil charts is no more than worthless clutter. The UK's busiest gliding centre operates within a MATZ. The military have sectorised that area an 'avoid' area, and it is marked as such in station ops docs, which begs the question why encompass it with the MATZ 'rubber stamp' in the first place.

The MATZ Penetration Service is neither one thing nor the other. Airmanship is no substitute for effective regulation with clear and robust procedures. Until that happens MATZs will remain an unknown traffic environment which Military ATSUs will have to tolerate.

So, work this one out. Leuchars is now the only H24 military LARS unit in the country. It has no based military aircraft (apart from a UAS) and the only reason it is retained as a LARS unit is because Leuchars is a designated diversion for QRA Typhoons. But neither Lossiemouth nor Coningsby (where the Typhoons come from) is H24, and Typhoons can also use Newcastle and Edinburgh (both H24 and only minutes Typhoon time away from Leuchars) for diversions. So yes, we pay for it, and there are ATCOs sitting there all night every night for sod all.

Gasax, is this news to you?

Picture the scene...

Jodel flying North from Denham. 1 x 720 channel radio, nothing else.

'Upper Heyford G-XXXX'

'G-XXXX Upper Heyford unintelligible southern drawl'

'Upper Heyford G-XXXX say again'

G-XXXX you're not painting'

U-H G-XX that's 'cos we're made of wood'.

About as useful as a chocolate teapot. Shortly after this exchange, we saw a F111 pass beneath us. We looked in the direction it had come from and sure enough, there was the second one, just above us.

We determined that the Russians would invade on a weekend in August, in wooden aeroplanes.

Last time I flew over Upper Heyford, it was covered in cars. Sic Transit...

Oh, and another thing. We used to get an excellent service from Luton Approach on 129.55, when the controllers were employed by Luton.
'G-XX turn left for identification'
'G-XX you are identified. Radar information service'.
Luton's radar was presumably good enough to get a return from the engine. After that, responsibility for Luton's approach was transferred to NATS and we lost the service.

TOO

No I just thought of it! :)

In the event that there ever is a collision between involving CAT in Class G we all know where the finger will point at least initially - when in actual fact it is the blind spot the regulator has and the cost saving approach from CAT operators....

Until 'airways' go from farmers' fields and large back gardens, there isn't much hope of the finger pointing anywhere other than at the pilots. Some of us don't have the luxury of always operating to and from airfields.

might have been before UHRMZ was implemented; I recall when it came in, and I'm sure Mary had already been flying x/c from Booker for a while back in those days.

I recall regular comms with UH controllers after the RMZ was implemented, when I was flying gliders x/c from Dunstable, where we made contact somewhere around the obvious VFR feature of Calvert Junction - then a live a brick works with smoking chimney next to a railway junction - and (nearly) every time, the American controller was still unaware of where this feature lay in relation to their airspace! You'd think that they would soon learn the obvious landmarks around the edge of their RMZ wouldn't you?! Possibly they were never posted to UH for long enough..!

One had to feel sorry for the Spams when it came to Welsh names though. There was that famous broadcast on L/L Common which went something like:

"All stations, this is Birch 17, enterin' low level 2 miles westa' Ladrin...Lanidrod...Larindrod... Ah', the hell with it - 6 miles northa' Boolth Wells!"

Maybe 30 years ago when Heyford was very active I was heading for Finmere clear of the MATZ when another pilot came over the glider radio " what's this airfield below me with all those big nissen huts" his mate informed him!!!.
I looked down to my right to see a C5 on long finals about 1000 ft below, busy skies in those days.