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-   -   building your own aerodrome (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/598981-building-your-own-aerodrome.html)

spRom 31st Aug 2017 00:12

building your own aerodrome
 
Hello,

how doable regarding regulations is to have your own airport in a field you own, and for just my personal use ?

I've been trying to find this answer in the forum and elsewhere hoping it was a common question but couldn't find anything under EASA

thanks!

Genghis the Engineer 31st Aug 2017 07:00

Certainly in Britain people have been doing this forever - and there is a wealth of material available on how to do it. I see farmstrips all the time as I fly around Britain - some are in the charts and guides, many aren't.

Generally speaking, EASA has nothing to do with it. It really is all about local planning laws - and largely the European Commission hasn't got its teeth into those yet.

G

chevvron 31st Aug 2017 12:52

As I understand it (and I may be wrong), you can land or take off anywhere you like provided you:
Have the permission of the landowner.
Inform the local police that you intend using a particular piece of land for takeoff and landing
provided:-
It is not in controlled airspace and hence needs permission from the controlling authority in the form of a Letter of Agreement.
You do not intend to use it on more than 28 occasions per year.(To use it more often requires permission from the local planning authority.)

NorthSouth 31st Aug 2017 14:19

I can't see why the police would need to know, or care

muffin 31st Aug 2017 14:41

Based on the experience of others, just do it and tell nobody. Keep it very low key and make sure you keep the neighbours happy. Asking officialdom is asking for trouble!

scifi 31st Aug 2017 14:45

Quote.... I can't see why the police would need to know, or care
Maybe to avoid the scenario.... '999 Police?.. I've just seen an aircraft crash in a field..'


One question I have, (being surrounded by some very large farms.)... Can you land 28 times in field 1, and 28 times in field 2..etc Our Landowning Neighbour owns a Learjet, and could be interested in the answer.
.

spRom 31st Aug 2017 15:11

really helpful, thanks everyone


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 9878434)
....
You do not intend to use it on more than 28 occasions per year.(To use it more often requires permission from the local planning authority.)...

I heard you can do that and after 10 years with no accidents and no complains it is possible to legalize it very easily.


Originally Posted by muffin (Post 9878526)
Based on the experience of others, just do it and tell nobody. Keep it very low key and make sure you keep the neighbours happy. Asking officialdom is asking for trouble!


Yes, that's been my experience with other things in life. I will do that then. Also I don't think any of the neighbors will keep a record on how many days I land per year or even know about the 28 days rule.

Genghis the Engineer 31st Aug 2017 15:59

spRom states that they are in "Europe" - which last I looked is a continent of 50 countries, about 2/3rds of whom are EASA members, and about half of which are EU members. All have their own laws, planning procedures, and police behaviours. Not all have the sort of friendly fluffy police we Brits are used to.

Goodness knowns why he or she doesn't want to admit to what country he's in - but that is their business. However, giving UK centric answers may not help much.

G

Jan Olieslagers 31st Aug 2017 16:22

I too was patiently waiting for the country to be named - that determines all, indeed; or at least it is the first parameter, and it may be the last in certain countries.

NorthSouth 31st Aug 2017 16:57


Originally Posted by scifi (Post 9878533)
Quote.... I can't see why the police would need to know, or care
Maybe to avoid the scenario.... '999 Police?.. I've just seen an aircraft crash in a field..'

Yeah that would work. '999 Police?.. I've just seen an aircraft crash in a field..' 'Ah no sir I've just checked our all-knowing online database of farm strips and that won't be a crash you saw it'll be Mr spRom doing a normal landing at his officially logged strip' :hmm:

spRom 31st Aug 2017 17:54


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 9878598)
spRom states that they are in "Europe" - which last I looked is a continent of 50 countries, about 2/3rds of whom are EASA members, and about half of which are EU members. All have their own laws, planning procedures, and police behaviours. Not all have the sort of friendly fluffy police we Brits are used to.

Goodness knowns why he or she doesn't want to admit to what country he's in - but that is their business. However, giving UK centric answers may not help much.

G

Genghis, I might have accumulated a few differences with interpol over the last few decades... But now I realize that with the current technology they can trace back my location anyways, what a time to be alive. Just kidding, I have read your replies in other threads of this forum and thank you for being here and sharing your knowledge.

I am Swiss but live in Spain, hence Europe. The aerodrome is to be located in Spain.

At first I didn't think there were many spaniards here, I now realize there is a spanish section, but more importantly I just thought this question had to do with EASA so countries didn't matter so to say, almost anything that has to do with aviation in Europe is under EASA I believed but I was clearly wrong.

I live in a somehow remote place of the canary islands, there is only one airport in this island, and the landing and parking fees are prohibitive.

Another option I was contemplating was getting my seaplane rating and either convert to floats or buy something with floats , is the safer choice as it gives plenty of room for a possible engine failure, there are hills everywhere in this island. Weather is usually very nice all year round but salty water might be a problem.

But the aerodrome option seems cheaper and faster to do after reading what you all have told me

Jan Olieslagers 31st Aug 2017 18:56

@NS: Talking of UK-centric ...

piperboy84 31st Aug 2017 21:05

I've had multiple cop cars tool into the strip several times because some old dude next door keeps calling them and saying a planes crashed into the woods. Ive asked the cops to remind the silly old bastard that it's me, at the airfield he walks his dog at and he knows fine well I haven't "crashed into the trees again" but they say he gets tanked up in the afternoons and forgets stuff.

It's going to be a right bastard when I do actually duff it in and he ignores me.

patowalker 31st Aug 2017 22:18

http://www.pasionporvolar.com/solici...omos-privados/

Genghis the Engineer 31st Aug 2017 22:44

My very limited experience of flying in Spain is that they can be a bit precious about airport security and planning issues - but that once airborne, things should be quite straightforward. But definitely - it is tbe local planning experience that you need to tap into there.

As it happens, a few years ago my brother restored an old farmhouse in Asturias - he found hiring local planning expertise absolutely essential to success in that also.

G

Sam Rutherford 1st Sep 2017 15:43

Seems to me you'd be better off asking someone in Spain who already has a private strip.

Hm, and if they're difficult to find, it may be because it's difficult to do...

Above The Clouds 1st Sep 2017 20:45


Scifi
One question I have, (being surrounded by some very large farms.)... Can you land 28 times in field 1, and 28 times in field 2..etc
Just a point of order; in the UK it is possible with the permission of the land owner, or if you are the land owner to use it for 28 days per year without having to obtain planning permission, there is nothing saying how many times a day you use it but if your doing 100 circuits a day then you are going to p1ss some neighbours off.

spRom 2nd Sep 2017 18:25

I've been asking around and it seems that there is a guy who tried to do something similar years ago. I've contacted him and now I'm waiting for his reply. I was told he even manage to convince the local government to subsidy the idea . GA apparently is welcome here. Also the local community with money to spend in this kind of stuff seems to gravitate toward boats, or horses there is no much else to spend the money on...so perhaps introducing aviation to a larger scale could give them a good excuse to spend the money on something else . I am thinking on microlights or ultralights. I even saw a field good for this purpose, it hosted a big airport decades ago. I visited it and there is nothing built on it. The old control tower still there and so on, with a few adjustments could host general aviation planes.

thanks for all your advice

Deltasierra010 2nd Sep 2017 19:37

Don't involve officialdom but be sensible, under the 28 day rule you have wide options but don't overfly neighbours on TO or landing so be careful how your strip is aligned. You still need planning for your hanger and that might be a problem unless it is close to other buildings. Be sure that your aircraft is suitable for farm strip operation they are not always dry and smooth in wet weather
A local landowner tried to get an airstrip registered, there was a major campaign against it, an "international airport" that sort of rubbish, it was all handled very badly. After a lot of cost he ended up with a 28 day strip.

ChickenHouse 3rd Sep 2017 06:31

Start with a "28 day" strip and see how the neighbors react. If there are no addicted-noise-is-bad-and-pilots-are-to-be-shot-in-the-back ones, you can extend after some time.

Jan Olieslagers 3rd Sep 2017 08:38


The aerodrome is to be located in Spain.
Is the 28-day rule applicable in Spain?

ShyTorque 3rd Sep 2017 08:48

I understand that the 28 day rule isn't specifically to do with aviation, but rather the planning regulations, regarding "change of use" of the land.

Above The Clouds 3rd Sep 2017 09:05


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 9880917)
I understand that the 28 day rule isn't specifically to do with aviation, but rather the planning regulations, regarding "change of use" of the land.

Absolutely correct.

Genghis the Engineer 3rd Sep 2017 09:56

And of course it is entirely a British rule - if it *happens* to apply in the Canaries, that's unlikely to be anything other than complete coincidence.

G

WilliumMate 3rd Sep 2017 10:32

From my experience dealing with Spanish planning authorities it may be worth contacting an abogado who is also aviation friendly and ideally of the same political persuasion as those who currently inhabit the Ayuntamiento. Arrange a meeting and good luck. The colour of good luck is often orange, green and yellow.

:hmm:

patowalker 3rd Sep 2017 19:57

Here are the regulations on opening and operating private aerodromes. Shouldn't take long to absorb, as it is all covered in one order, four royal decrees and a correction to a royal decree.

Normativa-Aeródromos y helipuertos de uso restringido-Aeropuertos-AESA-Agencia Estatal de Seguridad Aérea - Ministerio de Fomento

spRom 6th Sep 2017 19:45

it's a bit better Genghis the Engineer , from this royal decree https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2015-12893. thanks patowalker it was in the list of links you posted

quoting Articulo 2


b) Aeródromo eventual, la superficie apta para el uso por una o varias aeronaves, cuya utilización está limitada en el tiempo a un máximo de 30 días al año y que no dispone de infraestructuras permanentes para la operación de aeronaves.
So, for an aerodromo eventual or temporary aerodrome, the period is not 28 days as in the UK, but 30


Artículo 16. Aeródromos eventuales.
1. Con carácter previo a la autorización del uso de los aeródromos autonómicos eventuales, incluidos los helipuertos eventuales, que se encuentren dentro de una zona controlada, restringida o peligrosa, o dentro de la zona de afección de otra infraestructura aeronáutica, se recabará el informe o certificado de compatibilidad, según corresponda, en los términos previstos, respectivamente, en los artículos 12 y 14.
2. Para la autorización del uso del resto de los aeródromos autonómicos eventuales, incluidos los helipuertos, bastará con informar a la Agencia Estatal de Seguridad Aérea de su localización y de su período de utilización.
so as long as the aerodrome is outside a controled or restricted area. I only need to let the Spanish CAA know for how long it will be used and its location or do I


WilliumMate if I end up building something bigger or an aerdromo publico I will join the local political party to 'facilitate '

Roseland 9th Sep 2017 18:30

Just a bit more about the UK 28 day rule…

You can generally use agricultural land for up to 28 days a year for other purposes (such as an airfield) without getting Planning Permission. Some uses, such as car boot sales are limited to 14 days, but not aircraft.

The exception to all this is if the land is covered by an “Article 4 Direction” which removes Permitted Development Rights, in which case no landings are allowed.

If the aircraft is parked on the land, parked days count towards the 28 days.

Generally temporary use, where there is no evidence that the field has been used as an airfield when the aircraft is away, can never qualify for a Certificate of Lawful Use. But if there is permanent evidence of the field’s use as an airfield (a wind sock, lighting, a clearly mown strip) then the use can qualify for a Certificate of Lawful Use after ten years.

The exception is again if the land is covered by an Article 4 Direction. In this case a breach (no matter how brief) for ten years may qualify for a Certificate of Lawful Use. So in theory landing on New Year’s Eve and flying out on New Year’s Day five times could qualify. However regular use after that would count as intensification and still require Planning Permission.

One last note. If the land is used for any other purpose, for instance for a car boot sale, the ten year period resets each time a different use occurs.

SWBKCB 9th Sep 2017 19:38


You can generally use agricultural land for up to 28 days a year for other purposes (such as an airfield) without getting Planning Permission. Some uses, such as car boot sales are limited to 14 days, but not aircraft.
Changing use of agricultural land may also have subsidy implications within the EU

piperboy84 10th Sep 2017 00:22


But if there is permanent evidence of the field’s use as an airfield (a wind sock, lighting, a clearly mown strip) then the use can qualify for a Certificate of Lawful Use after ten years.
Really?? That's fantastic, so if someone can prove without a doubt via his logbooks and the logbooks of visiting pilots that the strip has been in permenant use for 10 years then your right to use it as an airstrip is "grandfathered" in?

Asking for a friend 👍🏻😀

mikehallam 10th Sep 2017 09:48

Worth thinking of but AFIR to be really safe you need to 'break' the 28 day rule for each of those ten years.

I did it here and we operate in Sussex without any more fuss.
Neighbours generally (caravan site close by) seem to actually like seeing a few a/c movements !

I suggest you pay a real man to give you the Law on this point in your area, might save you grief and money later on.

mike hallam.

P.S. Oh and we've never had to or in fact offered the 'C' book or log books to a soul, least of all the Local Council.

Maoraigh1 10th Sep 2017 19:28

PB84. Scottish law does not apply in Cornwall, so your situation might be different.

snoopyeagle 10th Sep 2017 22:42

Hi
 
I managed to purchase some agricultural land at the rear of my property and have a 300m strip and built a small hanger in the Corner over 10 years ago and never had a problem with anyone by keeping it low profile, I spoke to the only neighbor who I thought my be a problem first and generally only use it myself and have a Rotax 912 engine so I have never had noise complaint but I'm lucky as there are no houses directly on either approach and no direct neighbors apart from a farm to complain , The reason to notify the Police is because of Project Pegasus monitoring of Airstrips for Terrorism and people trafficking they generally visit you once a year, I didn't notify them they found me, it's worth notifying them also for the problem of I live next to a main road and you wouldn't know there was a strip there so people driving think anaircraft has crashed and call police and several times the Police Helicopter has turned up so now they can phone me first if they get a report. generally keep your head down and don't have fly ins and you will probably be Ok if you don't have difficult neighbors.

piperboy84 11th Sep 2017 00:12


Originally Posted by Maoraigh1 (Post 9887951)
PB84. Scottish law does not apply in Cornwall, so your situation might be different.

I'll tell my "friend" 😀


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