I really hope that Gertrude is engaged in a bit of good natured trolling here!

But he is highlighting a major issue I have with the way many pilots think about wind. The right time to think about wind is the pre-landing checks *primarily*. I certainly include consideration in mine, but most checklists don't. That is the time for any deep thinking on the topic, as minor variations as you trundle down final, whilst they can make a difference, happen more rapidly than you are likely to get updates on RT. Plus the instrument the tower are using to determine wind is not (usually) adjacent to your touchdown point.

The reason to throw an approach away from final is that the picture from the cockpit is all going wrong - not any last minute arithmetic. Any pilot who is adequately ahead of the aeroplane should either be comfortable they are well within limits, have already made a decision to go-around, switch runway or divert, or be aware that they are close to personal limits and prepared for the high workload and possible late decision based upon the view out of the window to go around. But they should have all of that sorted in their minds before they turn final - and I'd argue most times before they turn base.

G

Maybe this chap has his CRP-5 and a marker pen out during his CRAP checks :eek:

I've just done a quick route plan on Runway HD based on Perth 21 runway at 60 knots. Current wind is 250/15. Magnetic track is 222deg. Which would amount to a crab angle of 12 deg.
This app uses true track converted to magnetic heading so is 3deg incorrect.
All that is required is the runway magnetic track converted to current wind corrected mag heading at landing speed. This would be done well before final.
Alternatively. Know in advance what the pilot's or aircraft's max crab angle is and watch the compass/DI on final for excessive difference to runway heading, and go somewhere else as required.
Faffing about with mental arithmetic and charts on final is nonsense.
I've forgotten whether runways are in magnetic or true, or is that wind directions?

Standing by to be corrected but:

Runways are magnetic (well, in most parts of them world).

Winds given by ATC or on an ATIS are magnetic, met winds (as seen in TAF/METARS) are True....

Do agree with your comment about faffing about with charts on finals...

I'd argue that knowing the expected wind, plus the breakdown in headwind and crosswind, is one of the most important pieces of information required in the planning phase of the flight. If the crosswind is outside club/aircraft/personal limits, then it doesn't even make sense to show up for the flight. If it's close to limits, you may need to consider passenger comfort or maybe replanning the flight to a more suitable airfield.

The wind that you get through METARs, VOLMET, ATIS, from ATC, or whatever, is merely confirmation of something you should know already. And a chance to detect any deviations.

Also if 3 degrees makes any appreciable difference to whether you're within wind limits or not, then frankly you shouldn't be flying !

Admittedly there are countries where the magnetic-true variation is massively more than 3 degrees, but none of them are in Northern Europe this year.

G

What is a CRAP check?

I'm guessing Carb Heat, geaR, Airspeed, Propeller Pitch?

G

Final landing check:

Carb heat in correct position
Runway clear (and cleared to land)
Approach satisfactory
Propeller fine

:8

ahhhh, he says, nodding knowingly.

G

I never realised working out the crosswind component was so complicated!

The wind might technically be within "limits" but you might get on the approach and have doubts about whether it is safe to land so act accordingly!

CRAP checks? I don't know how I've managed without these "painting my numbers" mnemonics for years.

The worrying part here is that you make decisions based on ATIS/AWOS/tower given wind.

This thread scares me.

The closest isogonic line is 10.5E here :)

Agree 100% with your comments though. No-one should do continue/go-around decisions based on silly xwind calculations, which are nowhere nearly accurate anyway, when on final. If it looks good, continue. If it looks like it won't work, go around.

And you take those numbers as the actual wind? That is scary. I really hope you are trolling.

Forget the bull**** and fly the aircraft.

I'll freely admit light aircraft stuff isn't my aisle, so maybe you guys do things differently but that comment has made me curious.

Are you really saying you wouldn't make a certain decision :8 if say, tower reported wind is significantly outside your and/or your aircraft's crosswind limit ....

Thirty years in control towers and not once did I have an aircraft go around due to a reported crosswind. They all continued and made their own decision based on the aircraft's handling, usually very short final.

Ok thanks for that, so it's a case of "if it looks/feels alright" it is regarded as acceptable to press on and land, regardless of what the tower reports ( and is perhaps on the tapes..?

And equally so, it is acceptable to initiate a go-around, even if the tower says it's well within limits.

The pilot is the commander of his aircraft, and responsible for both good and bad decisions. The tower is only responsible for passing information and in some cases, giving permission or instructing a go-around because of external factors. No controller anywhere in the civilian world has however any say in whether a particular approach is safe or not from the perspective of aircraft handling and performance. That decision is absolutely and completely ALWAYS with the pilot.

G

Let's not forget that the original post is from a student pilot.
Students are trained to fly with an accuracy of a few minutes of arc, or at least try to.
Picking the wrong answer in the Nav written exam may be one degree different to the right answer, but will fail the question. So the question is understandable.