PA32 Saratoga - short field
Anyone regularly taking one of these into 400m strips?
Thanks, Sam. |
Go to EBGB and inquire about N123-what-was-it ;)
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From Pa 32 Saratoga POH "Maximum Perfromance Take Off" chart.
Sea level, 15 Deg C, MGTOW = 1700 feet or 518 metres...... |
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
(Post 9673645)
From Pa 32 Saratoga POH "Maximum Perfromance Take Off" chart.
Sea level, 15 Deg C, MGTOW = 1700 feet or 518 metres...... |
I think Sam means grass too, if there were a clear area after your ground roll, maximum performance chart for ground roll only:
Hard, dry runway; SL; 15c = 1200ft at MGTOW so roughly 365m. You'd be looking at a minimum of 440m on groundroll on short dry grass (excluding CAA safety factor) But then again - if you're flying super-light ie: no more than an hour of fuel and only you on board... A little 10kt headwind component, you might be able to do it - my chart says 1000ft groundroll - so including the short dry grass but not the CAA safety factor you'd be looking at 365m. I think it might be safer to fly a Cub in there.... |
Sorry, yes. Grass.
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Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford
(Post 9673716)
Sorry, yes. Grass.
Time for another Maule Sam, a 235hp nosegear would be the ticket. |
I cannot speak for the Saratoga, but I can say that repeated short runway ops become very un nerving. My home runway started out at 700 feet. My C 150 would do it, but warm days were simply scary. I have operated a C 182 at 3350 gross weight out of a 900 foot runway (40 feet longer than the takeoff distance table said is needed) Too short to relax!
It's not worth the worry, and possible explanation to the insurer - leave yourself some room whenever you can.... |
Sam, my farm strip is about 450 meters, on the odd occasion I've considered upgrading to a bigger plane I looked at the Saratoga, Cherokee 6 , DArrow, Pathfinder Dakota, C210 and a lot of others, some have book figures that may just make it but those figures are for a plane equipped with a new engine and prop and flown by a factory test pilot. Could they do it? probably, do I want to do it consistently with passengers? probably not the margins are to slim. Sooner or later you're going to have an overshoot.
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PA32 Saratoga - short field Anyone regularly taking one of these into 400m strips? Thanks, Sam. |
I have 300 hrs in Cherokee sixes and 450hrs in a n/a Saratoga. I would be very happy with a well drained 400m grass strip in the C6, if I wasn't heavily loaded, and the wind was 10kts down the runway. The Saratoga is quite different and whilst I am happy with grass strips, would be very wary of anything less than 600m - and would want to know that conditions were favourable before taking it on. The Hershey-bar wing and the later laminar-flow wings are very different animals...
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Time for another Maule Sam, a 235hp nosegear would be the ticket Maule MT-7-235 - AT Aviation |
A Robertson STOL converted Cessna 206 would work on a 400 meter grass strip at gross weight and under virtually any conditions.
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Listen to Step Turn
I have 25,000+ hours on many things including Chipmunks, JP's, Gnats, Hunters, Whirlwinds, Harriers, Lightnings, Jaguars, 737's and all models of 747's - oh and PA28's. Everything we did had "margins". Unless you really need to fly in and out of a VERY limiting strip with VERY FEW "margins", I suggest that you don't. Old and Not too Bold |
This is a good video to set personal margins.
THIS IS A "MUST SEE" Video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmEVwyMRYIY |
Another "Rotate and turn" video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vSM49-U3ZM |
I have the graphs if you would like them Sam - PM me.
The shortest Tarmac runway I've been in and out of is 500m with low fuel and 2pob. The PA32 can be a ground hog! With the wind blowing down the runway and a nice cold day etc you might do a little better but who can guarantee those ideal conditions?! I use Elmsett a few times a year 900m grass. The grass is perfect there, well maintained, rolled and mowed short like a bowling green. Landing is never a problem (there is an upslope on one runway) I can get down in half the distance easily If the approach speed is nice and stable. Takeoff I wouldn't want to push it in light wind and higer temps with fuller fuel and more POB it always feels tight! |
Not so lucky.
The guys got "locked in ground effect". Vegitation, and turbulence around vegitation can change temperatures and density altitudes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVM3RRd1vf0 |
The guy suggests (or says) that in future he will add 50% to book performance. They very nearly hit those trees.....
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I did 400hrs in a PA32-301R. Wouldn't do anywhere below 500m.
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