Cheap flying schools?
 

Hi guys, I'm looking for a cheap flying school within about 30 miles of Leicester. It costs me 145 at the moment for dual instruction, but being 15 years old it's still expensive. Thanks for any help!

£145 dual is not a bad rate these days. For Microlights try Kevin's school based at Leicester. Otherwise try Sibson, Shacklewell Lodge, near Rutland Water or Spanhoe, near Corby.
Just remember "cheap" might mean "Cheep", cheep" as they boot the fledgling out of the nest...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Though at 15 I do know where you are coming from. I was that age 65 years ago and could not afford it either.
Best of luck, it is worth the sacrifice.

Check what you are being charged for:

Is it wheels off, wheels on - i.e. time in the air.

Or wheels on/wheels off plus 10 mins (say) to allow for taxying and holds at a busy airport.

Or, at the extreme, as one flying school - long closed - that I know of, was charging: master switch on to ms off. And they made students switch on the master switch before doing the walk-round!!

(ps. They still went bust. Overheads higher than income!!!)

And then there are landing fees.

And make sure you are getting a proper brief before each lesson - and how that is paid for. (often: oh, don't bother, we'll cover that in the cockpit, let's get flying!)

I learned with Donair at East Mids Airport. That was £145ph in a 152. Got it about 10% cheaper if you block pay for 10 hours at a time. Charged for brakes off to brakes on.

Good instructors and friendly staff.

There is an old proverb that says " cheap is not so cheap" .

There is a cost to doing things to the correct standard and if you cut corners with your training this is likely to result in much bigger costs further down the line.

You must remember that your primary training is the foundations on which your piloting skills are built.........don't build on sand just to save a few quid.

You are young and you are on a budget. Go for gliding. Will make you a better pilot of powered planes, too.

After reading the OP and the thread title I was going to offer some advice. But I don't need to do that - every post above is bursting with wisdom!

Luke,


Some good advice has been posted already, about costs and alternatives.


The only alternative thoughts I would add are:


30 miles in which direction? Coventry is less than 30 from Leicester, Peterborough Conington is just over 30, but they're in opposite directions from Leicester.


Depending how close to Leicester you are, traveling further afield will probably off set any hourly rate decrease (if there is one).


If you're finding the finances tough, possibly wait until you have saved more so you can maintain the rate of learning. Any learning you do in the next few years will be very easily absorbed, so putting it off will not hamper things. Having to delay lessons due to lack of funds will be frustrating, and will prolong the training, thus making it expensive in the long run.


TPP

Hi again all,

I go to Donair currently, and I too can confirm its a brilliant club and the staff are also very understanding of my situatuion. At Donair, I am charged 145 for the following : A 20 minute or so brief, unlimited landing fees at EGNX, and an hour of dual in the good old 152.

Leicester from what I am aware offer roughly the same, however they charge 135. Personally, whilst it is 10 more at Donair, i think i get the better service especially since i have East Midlands to play at (Probably the best time of my life talking to ATC and landing there) compared to Leicesters little airfield. What club would you guys pick out of those , would you agree on my point or would you differ?

Also, any club upto 30 miles in any direction from Anstey would be as far as i can go (The parents dont enjoy shuttling me round haha) so if you know any please drop them down.

Gliding is one of those that looks fun but im not sure id really enjoy it as much as i do flying the props. I am aiming to complete my PPL without any loans and hopefully done when i turn 18. (Probably nearer 19, im not rich. dammit :( ) After i leave college, my plan is to then start hitting the CPL and ATPL ratings until i can eventually get a job at a small airline. Its at this point where i would take out those heafty loans. Any advice from you guys on that part to?

Cheers all,
Luke.

Hi Luke,

It sounds like you've given this lots of thought, and that's excellent. Bear in mind, that when you fly a certified plane, you are at the end point of the efforts of many aviation professionals, and regulatory structure and compliance. Many people would say "too much", including me, (and I'm a part of it). But, that's the way it is, unless someone changes many regulations.

The maintenance requirements for the aircraft, including recurring and out of phase inspections, consumables, the management of the flying school, insurance, and many other costs affect what you are asked to pay for the use of that 'plane.

You expect to be fairly paid for the work you do, and so do the many people who work to provide the 'plane you want to fly. for my experience (40 years in GA), few people are getting rich at it, most GA people make a fair living. It would be difficult for you to face any of those aviation professionals and ask them to work for less. So "cheap" 'planes and instruction are not a deal. If you're flying one, something you would like to have, may be missing, or diminished.

You will find that the 'plane is the expensive part, and the instructor is less so. Value an experienced and mentoring instructor, and pay them what they're worth to you. When you pay a restaurant server, you may even tip them, paying them in excess of what they're normally paid. Instructors probably don't regularly receive tips.

Your success as a pilot, and indeed your attractiveness to an aviation employer, will in part be your experience, and wisdom (decisions making skills). That comes from competent, experienced instruction, and your pursuit of building experience (as opposed to just "hour building"). Some of the best, and most valued instruction I have received was with pilots with more than 20,000 hours flying in the real world. Such instructors, if you can find them, are worth what they cost - whatever it is. Such pilots rarely work for "basic" pay.

Aviation people know what costs are, and understand that young people have more difficulty affording costly training, but your youth and eagerness do not make the costs to operate the aircraft, and pay the staff any less. What you will probably find, as I did as a 16 year old student a long time ago, is that if you are "around" the flying club, and are a pleasant person, other more experienced members and pilots might take you under their wing. Airplane owners are often eager for a hand with washing and waxing their 'planes (particularly the icky belly). Take some coveralls, and offer to help, you will probably be pleased with the reward of an appreciative owner.

Offer to cut grass, pump fuel, wash windows at the flying club, make yourself known as a person who will do that little extra - you'll get it back in flying. And, you'll be off to the important start in aviation of distinguishing yourself by working harder, and paying it forward. I did, and worked better than I could have imagined.

A difference I see, between "now", and when I was a student 40 years ago, is the internet - it did not exist then! So student pilots actually spent non flying time at the airport. Foul day? Lesson over? Still at the airport, talking to other pilots, learning, getting known and networking. Now, I go to the flying club, and the place is deserted. I see students taking instruction, but non just hanging around. You meet pilots, and talk airplanes at an airport - be there! Yes, you can chat flying here too, and maybe make a contact, but person to person is still better!

Be shrewd with your money, but seeking "cheap" in aviation may not ultimately get you where you want to be. And, when you want "free", ask questions here! Some posters who will answer your questions are incredibly experienced and wise.

'Best of luck Luke....

Hi Luke,

Bear in mind joining / membership fees - Donair's is about £90pa iirc? When I contacted Leicester recently about joining (for cheaper hourlies) they quoted me £350pa, plus £50 extra in year 1.

That's a *lot* of £10ph to claw back.

My advice - stick with Donair... you're already there, you've got the benefit of full ATC at EGNX, the club's good and don't rip you off, and Leam / Jag /Ade etc. know their stuff as instructors.

Have you thought about asking your parents to block book 10 hours at a time for you (if they are able to?) then you pay your parents back at a cheaper rate than paying the full price at Donair?

Maybe see you there some time :)

Whilst it's a saving to pay for 10 at a time, I still can't afford it so it would probably take a fair few months to pay for 10 at the least (and also if I suggested that idea I'd be put out of the family lol ). I don't mind the 145 considering what the club gives me.To be honest it's just the wait to save that much that really does my head in. And yes it would be nice to see you there someday, maybe we could go up together for half hour!

Thanks , that was very detailed and useful advice. If I where to ask my Instructor next time I go up if I would be able to come down on weekends and help out for a few hours , do you think I'd be allowed?

I mean although I wouldn't be flying I'd at least be working with aircraft and around great people which works just as well for me.

Luke.

If you want to be in the aviation business, the very most important part of that is to be where airplanes and aviation people are. It is very difficult to advance yourself in an industry, when you're not there!

The worst is that you are at the airport for a few hours, and must occupy yourself reading old aviation magazines. Measure carefully the balance of being around and helpful, without becoming "overly present". Establish yourself as being trustworthy in whatever security environment might exist, so that your being on the apron when not flying is not concerning to anyone. If you see an owner you recognize passing through the clubhouse on the way to their 'plane, offer to carry something for them, and ask if you can watch them do their walkaround inspection to learn from them. Allow yourself to become known as the pleasant young enthusiast who is always willing to lend a hand.

For myself, if a young eager student pilot were to offer to wash and wax one of my 'planes, I would happily share a few hours flying with them. It does not work for me, as I keep my 'planes at home, not at an airport, so there is never anyone else around here. But I know that there are owners whose 'planes are at airports, who need them washed too!

Alright, I have bought myself a lesson this Tuesday so I will ask just in case, hopefully even if its just for a few hours on Saturday I will be able to help out.

Once again thanks all for your comments, I really appreciate your advice!

Luke.

Best of luck Luke. I was in a fairly similar situation. Started my training aged 16 in June 2011, passed my test in November this year with 46 hours. It is generally true, however, that if you space out your lessons, it will take you longer and cost more to do, I guess I was just lucky. My personal advice to you would be to, if you can, just save those £145 flights until you have either a) enough to finish your training, or b) do most of your training. This sucks in the short term, but will probably save you money in the long run. In the meantime, as has been suggested, get some gliding time as it's not that expensive, keeps you in the air, and will make you a better pilot. Also, if you join a gliding club that uses a tug instead of a winch, you may be able to go up in the tug a few times. You're not flying for long, but it's really interesting. :)

Don't write off Gliding
 

Luke

I'm not a regular contributor to PPRUNe but your post caught my eye. I'm impressed with the amount of research you've done and thought gone into it, as others have said doing aviation 'on the cheap' is a good way to run up into trouble, the place you are flying at now seems good value and is best for what you need, don't let it go for just a small difference.

However I really think you really should re-consider your point about Gliding, how do you know you won't enjoy it without at least trying it out, after all, flying in straight lines is surely not that fun either!

To give my story, I was in your position at 14 in 2011 starting out Microlighting, I could barely afford a lesson a month so it was pointless, however I took up Gliding, went Solo at 15 and took advantage of the many scholarships available.
Now at 19 I work for one of the largest gliding clubs in the world in the summer as a professional instructor with hundreds of hours, and during the winter I live out in Australia doing the same!
At the same time I'm just about to finish of my NPPL which was mostly funded by a Scholarship, doesn't take much to cover it especially as Glider Pilots don't have to complete as many hours to get the licence, and future progression will hopefully be onto towing gliders and building some hours for CPL at no cost over the summer, a mate of mine did 200 hours power for absolutely nothing at a gliding club this year and had a free tailwheel conversion thrown in too. You cannot beat that!

To get to that level I have certainly not spent anywhere near the amount of a PPL and I don't come from a privileged background, but like others have advised you to do, I did muck in doing all the dirty jobs and sacrificing a few days flying for it, but it's totally worth it. So don't write off Gliding, for starting at just £10 a flight at some places you'll get far more airtime for your buck than you'll ever get in a power plane unless you win the lottery, plus it looks good on any application and there's a great social community of hundreds of young people in Gliding, many of which are now FOs and thank gliding for helping them towards it!

Just my two cents!

Planesandthings

My one experience of gliding was hanging around the gliding club for an entire (long summer) evening out of which I got five minutes in the air, which was as I expected.

What I hadn't twigged in advance was that those five minutes weren't actually any cheaper than five minutes in a powered aircraft would have been.

It's a shame you got that experience, that's a common, now false stereotype of Gliding thankfully that's confined to the past unless you're at a really backwards club. Though you can't really expect long flights in the evening can you? If you want to experience Gliding you come during the day, trial lesson evenings are a poor introduction.

But to put it into perspective, I did a 6 hour flight from Hampshire to Lincolnshire and back off a winch launch in July, dinner was the most expensive thing that day! Certainly cheaper than the £15 landing fee plus flying fees to do a 5 minute circuit in a beaten up old cessna at the local airfield down the road, letalone the cost of a 6 hour flight!

Planesandthings,

Thanks, I can spend hours on end thinking about how to plan it all out, i could probably write a book on it haha.

Do you have any clubs you could reccomend around leicestershire? And as I have not looked into gliding that much, do clubs even still use the old tugs? I may try a flight out and see what I think.

How do you price a glider flight also, as per powered aircraft it is done via time, is it done by how quick or how high you are launched to? Silly thoughts i know but confuses me to think how gliders could be priced as ultimatley you do not know how long you would be up for.


Luke.