SEP Night flying
 

Another straw poll - night ratings, who has one and is it worth the extra risk?

I've been thinking about adding a night rating for a new experience, however the view of some at the club is that it isn't worth the risk - saying that a forced landing is just going to be a crash, should this unfortunate event occur.

There are others though that say night flying is wonderful and feel that the reward/risk ratio is still worth it.

I have one. Do I use it? Depends. I fly an SR20 so in case of the engine failing, I can pull the 'chute. However I will only fly if the weather conditions are excellent.

For me, flying at night - especially my recent New Year's Eve flight at midnight, flying over cities, watching the fireworks made it worthwhile so yes, having the rating is rewarding enough to enjoy it but I doubt I would use it as frequently in an older Spam Can....

Any further education is of benefit for a pilot, regardless of using it later on, or not.

Yes, I really enjoy flying VFR at night, but you have to keep in mind that emergencies are even less funny. During my NVFR training they had the saying that at day you survive 90 percent of engine outs, but only 10 percent at night. NVFR training does also do good for navigational skills (similar to CVFR or light IFR) and radio OPS on RADAR freqs, so yes, if you have a chance to do, do.

For practical use, think of your usual flying profile and if you ever run into trouble being late, compare the risk of get-there-itis to simply stay calm and file NVFR. If you potentially want to go IR, NVFR is a real nice step and in my view almost a necessary one.

There seem to be three or four aircraft flying orbits around Cambridge's firework display each November 5th. I hope they're watching each other as well as the fireworks!

I think you're worrying about the wrong risk here. Everyone worries about engine failure without looking at the facts. Engine failure isn't the biggest cause of accidents. Add to that the biggest causes of engine failures are fuel exhaustion/starvation, issues that can be fixed by proper planning. Engine failure is the least of your worries.

Most certainly night flying is more risky but the major risks don't change based on the type of aircraft. CFIT, disorientation, somatogravic illusion on take off, are greater risks.

Also I worry when pilots are.happy to accept a risk just because they have a get out of jail card like.a ballistic 'chute.

I think, statistically, SEP flying is safer at night than during the day, so why would anyone fly SEP during daylight??

Yes, I love flying and teaching for the night rating. With the correct training, the issues raised by 27/09 whilst very real, can be reduced to 'remote' in terms of risk.

However, last year, I only completed 2 night ratings, because of the weather. It really does have to be a lot better than during the day.

TOO

TOO.

I agree, the risks I mentioned can be mitigated with good training. I was putting the risk of engine failure into perspective.

Cheers

The only night flying I've done is that I've had a few IR(R) lessons in the dark.


I was straight onto instruments after take-off, as there was nothing much to see out of the front window until levelling off at top of climb, and I wouldn't have wanted to do that without the instrument training.


Then the navigation is all electronic, one way or another (navaids or GPS), unless and until, I suppose, you've done a lot of night flying and got to recognise what your local area in particular, and the ground in general, look like at night. Dunno about others, but I'm unconvinced that I'd learn my way around sufficiently in the few hours that are required for the night rating to be comfortable navigating visually at night.


So, for me it's instrument training first, and night training second if at all, because you're going to need the instrument training to fly at night anyway. So, if I'm not worrying overmuch about the consequences of flying into a cloud I didn't see does that remove the "really does have to be a lot better than during the day" criterion? Do you teach night rating to mostly people who don't have IR(R), and does it make a difference if they do have it?

I'd say, mostly, yes, it's to people without an Instrument qualification and it makes less difference than you'd think though of course the IR(R) course sharpens up your general flying anyway.

The first hour of the Night course starts, paradoxically, in daylight, just before dusk. The takeoff feels entirely normal for daytime ops, but as you level off, although you can see all the usual ground features, fields, hedgerows, individual houses etc, you'll notice that the cars have started to turn on headlights and the light from shop windows illuminates the pavement. Street lighting starts to come on and the sky towards the East is less distinct. As you fly around, the definition of the fields start to become less easy to make out, though you feel that you could still see to land on an unlit runway. After official night time passes, you start to see that the roads are now defined by the lights of the traffic and the shape of towns by the street lighting. In the days of sodium street lights, not only the shape but the colour of towns matched those on the 1/2 mil chart. By 1/2 hour after official night, fields have mostly lost their definition but you can easily see where you are by local roads and habitation. There is still a good visual horizon, especially to the West. Now's the time to land at an airfield with runway lights and prepare for your first night dual navex. I like to have this all prepared beforehand so it's just a five-minute hold on the taxiway to re-brief and then do the first night take-off. Whilst it's true that there aren't as many visual cues as daytime, there'll still e plenty of horizon definition until a couple of hours after sunset. I wouldn't recommend your first night flight to be more than an hour after official night.

Anyhow, why not go and do it for yourself? I understand that in the United States, Night flying forms a part of the basic PPL course, they can't see what all the fuss is about!

TOO

Apart from "what if the engine stops" the practical reason is that I'd probably only get to use it once every other year or so, given the rental environment and airfield closing times, so I'd rather spend my money on other things!


(Having said which, I've just done a floatplane rating, which is even more useless.)

I loved getting my night rating all those years ago. Flying over Coventry with light reflecting from the thick cloud above into the Beagle Pup was a great experience. Apart from a few occasions afterwards, I have never used the rating - not because I'm worried about it, it just hasn't been necessary. Yes, there is a risk but I recall the words of my instructor when briefing for an engine failure, 'Aim for a dark bit then at four hundred feet, turn on the landing lights. If you don't like what you see...turn them off.'

Night flying in a SEP is wonderful and I feel that the reward/risk ratio is still worth it, though I'm less sure about how folks on the ground might view the risk/reward ratio.

Be careful if the weather is less than perfect; wet, gusty weather can be decidely unnerving for the inexperienced. It is frighteningly easy to lose visual reference and I'd say a basic and current competence in instrument flying is a prerequisite in all but ideal conditions.

Most of my SEP night flying was back in the days when Rule 5 was interpreted a lot more liberally than it would be today and some of my most memorable flights were operating low level over London. The SVFR desk at LHR would usually clear you direct from Tower Bridge to CHT at around 1700ft and the view at night was literally stunning.

I did have cause to pause and reflect after one particularly low level clearance in a PA38 across the west end of the LHR CTZ; the landscape was particularly black and featureless, there wasn't a horizon to speak of, I was essentially on instruments the whole way, and on being spat out right on the wycombe ATZ boundary and being given the local QFE from the tower, found that I needed to climb a couple hundred feet to join the circuit.

Old age, common sense and stricter interpretation of the rules preclude such activities now, but the memories will stay with me forever.

Night flying offers some real benefits, provided your skills are good, and your decision making is appropriate. It is true that the chances of a "successful" forced landing are reduced, but honestly, I am less at ease flying across a large city [with no where good to land] than cross country at night.

A major safety factor is simply recognizing that you have much less information with which to safely orient yourself. Those who were unaware of this were reminded by JFK Jr's accident. He lacked awareness, everything needed for a safe flight was available as expected, he just did not apply the minimum required skills.

Night flying, in addition to the convenience of a longer available operating period, affords the pilot the opportunity to fly before or after unsuitable weather, instead of taking a whole day delay. Night air is also more smooth, so if it's been a really rough day, waiting until night to fly home might be nice!

Preparedness is vital. Have the additional items required, and know your aircraft systems well!

I passed my night rating/qualification just after my PPL. I can even remember the date: It was the 17th Feb 2005. (The reason I remember is that it was the Thursday before I got married!) Since then I have flown a grand total of 1 hour at night. There are a number of reasons for this, but mostly because it hasn't been necessary or convenient.

The hour I did was last winter when I decided that it would be a good idea to resurrect the rating and spent an hour practicing landings with an instructor. The plan was to then spend time doing a nav exercise with an instructor, but we ran out of dark nights before we were able to do so.

I intend to continue with the nav exercise when the clocks change because I thoroughly enjoyed flying at night. The air is stiller and the scenery is spectacular. Yes I worry about the forced landing issue, but don't consider that a reason not to fly at night. I consider that a reason to make sure I'm as safe as I can be.

There are practical issues with flying at night, especially from Elstree. Firstly, Elstree is only open late 2 nights a week, so you've got to be very lucky with the wx, and secondly, because of power cables, the runway is only licensed at night in one direction so even when the weather is good you still need the wind to be blowing in the right direction.

I also view night flying in the same way others view and IR(R)/IMC: it could help you out of a sticky situation...

I don't. Weather forecasts can be wrong, but sunset forecasts can't.

I have a night rating and IR. I don't regularly fly at night as my base airfield is closed and also the risk (single engine) is increased.

However the night rating opens up potential options:-

e.g. commencing a flight before official daylight (SR -30 mins). i.e. a "night" departure with "day" landing.

returning after an unexpected delay (headwinds) has pushed the landing into official "night."

Night also has the advantage of less traffic. At a large regional airport towards SS the place was like a beehive of GA aircraft, all buzzing the circuit and multiple on final. Once the clock past the magic SS+30 the place was deserted. Much safer to fly in SS+45 mins. (Not necessarily real darkness).

With the IR, the "night rating" is effectively only the last 200ft and landing.

flyme

As always, it depends on the mission profile.

Sunset forecasts are usually quite reliable, but our flight execution might not. Examples, if the credit card system at re-fueling f*cks up and instead of a 30 minutes stop you end up in a 2 hours delay, if the taxi to the airfield gets stuck in a traffic jam, if unexpected weather detours you by a significant time, if the girlfriend you met needs a second helping, if you have to wait 45 minutes at the taxiway before the airliner gets off the runway, if if if.

There are hundreds of reasons why you could end up in a situation where a night rating relaxes.

For most pilots the biggest problem with night flying is finding airfields that are open at night, most of them tend to be the bigger, more expensive ones thus reducing the usefullnes of the rating.

I found the night rating useful in the Winter months. Handy when the Wx is good but daylight is short. You can do some really nice navexes at night if the Wx cooperates.

Very useful if you are away somewhere and get delayed for whatever reason, as has been stated, came in useful to me a couple of times.

Foxmoth, good point.

flyme.

I have one. Flying in the evenings is indeed breath-takingly beautiful.

http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/BP-NVFR.jpg

Regarding the increased fatality rate of night flying accidents, I think it is important to do at least 1-2 night flights per year, just to stay in shape. I never understood those, who got this rating and didn't dare to use it at all. In case they accidentally overrun the daytime hours and end up flying NVFR, they will be unprepared for that and completely out of shape...:=

From a US perspective, this is an odd thread. You can't even get a PPL in the US without some night experience (can't remember the details without looking them up but something like 3 hours). The justification being that sooner or later you'll end up flying at night so you'd better know how. You CAN not bother afterwards, but if you want to stay current you need to do an average of one night t/o+landing per month. Though there is no currency requirement for solo flying, only for carrying passengers (your insurer may feel differently).

In my first year post-PPL I flew a 172 from the San Francisco area to LA (Hawthorne) and ended up returning at night (6.3 hours flight time for the round trip). I was well into my IR training but didn't yet have the IR. Flying up across the back country on a hazy night was instrument flying for all practical purposes. It was long and boring but didn't seem particularly difficult.

When flying at night cross country (which I don't often have reason to do) I stay high enough and choose my route so that I can always get to a runway. Not practical in SE England I know.

Night flying in the Bay Area is spectacular and every bit worth it. I recently did the required night cross-country for my CPL-H and loved it. Yes, it's more of a worry where you'll go if the engine stops (though less in a heli of course since you don't need a runway).

I think one thing I omitted at the start was that I fly purely for pleasure and so if I were to fly at night it would be a planned event to enjoy. Seeing that picture is exactly the sort of sight that makes me think of training for it.

Maybe just another way of the CAA squeezing another fee out of us!

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From a US perspective, this is an odd thread.

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Another big contrast between night flying in the UK and the US is the availability of places to take off and land at night. A large proportion of airfields in the US have pilot controlled lighting, and are quite relaxed about out of hours movements, which really opens up the possibilities. That is one of the main reasons that the majority of the night hours in my logbook are in the US, despite most of my total hours being in the UK. With the CAA’s laudable relaxation of restrictions on PCL at licenced airfields a few years ago, I did hope that PCL would become more common in the UK. Alas, it does not seem to have happened yet. It would be very good publicity to become one of the first in the UK to boast PCL, so come on, you airfield operators out there….

The big diffrence is that in the USA most airfields are owned and run as an essential public service by the local municipality. No landing fees, everything is paid for out of local taxes.
Contrast that with the UK where airfields are run on a shoestring by clubs and individuals. A lighting system is an expensive investment which needs to be justified by increased income from landing fees etc. In most cases it would take decades or even centuries to recover the cost.
Expect to see maybe one or two places where a wealthy owner wants a lighting system for his own convenienc regardless of cost, these will be rare.

Not necessarily. You can do the night flying as part of your PPL training, and gain both licenses simultaneously. A friend of mine did that because he'd completed the PPL syllabus, and was ready for his skills test, with hours to spare.

OK, if you liked that one, here is the whole photo series then, so you can make up your mind :} Evening sightseeing flight - Budapest - Diamond Katana DA-20 NVFR

Just like you, I also fly for pleasure and I wasn't sure if I should get this rating either.
I knew a lot of people, who got it and did nothing with it. I don't have money to waste, so I definitely didn't want to go down the same route. So before I decided on it, I wanted to have a clear picture for my own sake: how am I going to use my night priviledges on a regular basis?

The first investigation I did was very disappointing. The place where I rented my aircraft basically turned me down. They could train me for NVFR on a 4-seater at a far-away airfield, because our base has no lighting due to owner/financial investor not interested, the operator is reluctant to give out their aircraft for night flying due to their insurance (safety pilot is required anyway). So I gave up and just watched others on Youtube :)

One day my little daugher came in to the study room, she doesn't like flying, yet she looked at one of those nice night scenes on the computer screen, and she said: "Dad, I would love to go on a flight like this, this is beautiful!".

So I re-started searching and found another company which offered NVFR training on an even more far-far airfield, 2 hours drive from my home, 1.5 hours drive from my workplace. But they could teach me on a 2-seater, they have no limitation on night rental, their base have lighting at reasonable costs. So I decided to go for it. After a full day work, I had to drive on the highway 1.5 hours, eat and sleep a bit at a petrol station, and then start the flight training at sunset well into the night, 1.5 hours, and then drive back home late in the night. Next morning I had to be fresh at work. But I knew I made the right decision when both instructors I flew with, spontaneously pointed at the nearby city and said "You know, THIS beautiful view NEVER gets old!" These are people with more than 1000-2000 hours experience, so if they say so, who am I to argue? :)

In the evenings, the air calms down, no turbulence, silk-smooth flying. The traffic in the headset is quieter. The instruments are dimly lit. The stars are bright above you, the Earth shows her different face, the Moon reflects from lakes and rivers between great areas of pitch black fields or dangerous forests. The villages and cities shine like treasure boxes filled with jewelry. The airfields are tiny and more welcoming than ever, giving you the only chance to land safely. It's an entirely different world, really.

Within two weeks of receiving my night rating in my license, an NVFR-capable 2-seater was re-positioned to a nearby airfield, which didn't have runway lighting, so we took off right before sunset with my daughter, flew around the outskirts of the capital city in uncontrolled airspace, and then went for a 30 minutes cross-country flight to an airfield, which had lighting and accomodation arranged for us. Next morning we came back in the morning hours.

As for the future, I am planning to do another NVFR flight in coming October to a place, which is open 1 hour beyond sunset on Saturday evenings. Then another place in January. Unfortunately, overnight accomodation is an issue, but it is still cheaper to stay over in a rural city, than coming back to land at the international airport (landing fee = 1 hour flying for me). But that's the inconvenience I pay for the night landings, I knew this from the beginning.

I hope this story helps you to do your reseach and homework on this topic :)

That is quite a commitment. I'm glad it has been worth it for you - what an amazing slideshow!

I'm much much more fortunate I must say in that the airfield I fly from (Earls Colne, EGSR) has both grass and hard runways, easy to get into large areas of uncontrolled airspace and has lighting and offers night/instrument ratings as well as being reasonably priced (honestly, I have no idea why the place isn't totally rammed full all the time)...

I have a few things to tick of my to do list - but I think your poetic post and youtube video has twisted my arm and by the end of the year I will start a night rating for sure!

Pa28 over Inverness, compact digital hand held out of "window" with strap secured on wrist.

Thanks M01, enjoyed that.

:)

Anyone wondering what fireworks are like from above, here's a video from last year's New Year's Eve, unfortunately even with a decent camcorder, you still can't quite capture the magic of the depth of illumination (for best results, choose HD in settings).

For me, that flight was definitely one of my Bucket List flights..... might do it again this year too ;-)

Oh damnit... my bucket list became longer .... :) Very nice video, it helps imagining how it looks in real life :)

A friend of mine has a 185 which he keeps at his private grass strip. He has installed reflectors which he illuminates with the landing lights. He says it works perfectly.