Difference between IMC and IR?
 

I feel like I should know this, but - apart from UK only thing for the IMC rating - what is the difference?

What can you do with a PPL/IR that you can't do with PPL/IMC?

1. Fly in Class A airspace.
2. Fly to lower instrument approach minima.

Beagle, that's not the spirit. Far too brief and concise.

What happened to endless waffle and pontification, slowly building towards a big row? :)

Next door along - waffle clinic

As well as BEagles comments, you can use airways and have
to fly to more accurate tolerances, +/-50 ft vs +/- 100ft for IMC.
+/- 5 degrees vs +/-10 degrees...its all in all somewhat harder.

You emerge a better but poorer (wallet-wise) pilot,

-- Andrew

The advantages of an IR allowing you to get home from abroad in IFR weather, are well known, but another advantage is: because IR privileges allow flight in Class A, you can often fly higher. This is a useful safety advantage when flying single-engine over water. You can cross the channel within gliding distance of land from the mid-point on quite a few routes, and the 'feet-wet' band across the Irish Sea is narrower. However, the biggest benefit is the improvement in flying skill and the confidence that comes with it.

Can you use an FAA IR in the same way in UK/Europe in a G Reg. A/C?

LF

If you pass the FAA IR course you are entitled to add a IMC Rating to your JAA licence.

For full IR privledges you will have to hire an N Reg aircraft which, whilst scarce, seem to be becoming more and more common from what I have noticed.

No. You can use it outside controlled airspace but not for IFR within controlled airspace (including classes D and E).

...though you will have the UK IMC rating (if you have a CAA/JAA licence) so if you're flying in the UK in uncontrolled airspace you can use your IR head, but as soon as you enter a class D zone, then you must switch the IMC head on.....Unless you change the shape of the letter on the aircraft from this: G to this: N then you're quite entitled to use your IR head 100% of the time...(confused?)

Cheers
EA :D

Thought that was the case - can't say I understand why G and N Reg. makes a jot of difference really. Thanks for the replys (please note - dare not ( darnt??? ) use an apostrophy anymore here on pprune, might get it wrong ;) )

LF :D

There are two separate issues here, just in case anyone is confused by the discussion.

If you apply to the CAA for an IMC rating on the basis of your FAA IR, you may well be granted one for no more than a payment (i.e. no test) and you then have an IMC rating which you have to keep current in the usual way.

If you do not do so, you can still exercise the privileges of your FAA IR on a G-reg aircraft but not IFR within controlled airspace (including classes D and E).

There is therefore an advantage in applying for the IMC rating in that you can then fly IFR in classes D and E.

Bookworm - Now I'm confused!

I have an FAA PPL Multi IR at present but no CAA/JAR ticket of any description.

If I apply to the CAA for an IMC rating do I need a JAR PPL to begin with - surely they can't just give you a rating with no license to add it to? :confused:

Finally, if I did get an IMC rating what would I have to do to keep it current? - Doubt it's self certifying like the FAA IR... :cool: :D :cool:

andrewc, airways = class A airspace, and tolerances? to pass the test;) although of course etc. etc.

DB6,

Yeah, I know that airways = class A - I just thought BEagle
was being a little too concise about the issues.

To be frank I think that this thread really revolves around
currency.

Which is where the a) 'IMC is a get out of jail free card' vs
b) 'I can go into IMC to my legal limits' camps differ.

If you stay current, then b) is true, if you don't then a) is
true...and you'll probably sweat rocks when it happens...

-- Andrew

Not sure whether all the info posted here is accurate. I believe you can use an IMC rating in IMC conditions in some Class D airspace provided the Class D has not been notified for Schedule 8. eg Liverpool, Newcastle.

Extract fromm CAA GID 15

PART 2 THE INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS RATING
INTRODUCTION
(a) An IMC Rating may be attached to either a UK or a JAR-FCL PPL(A). It extends the privileges of a
PPL(A) holder to allow flight as Pilot-in-Command of aeroplanes:
(b) Out of sight of the surface;
(c) When in IMC outside controlled airspace notified for the purposes of Schedule 8 to the ANO;
(d) Carrying passengers above 3000 feet above mean sea level (amsl) in IMC or in a flight visibility
less than 5 kilometres at or below that height, when outside controlled airspace notified for the
purposes of Schedule 8 to the ANO;
(e) During take-off or landing with a flight visibility below cloud of not less than 1800 metres;

This was confirmed by my CFI at home base LPL. Anyone disagree.

Let the "get out of trouble" debate roll on - it depends on each individual.

Fly safe

aztec
[I]

andrewc, how very true. I would say in fact that a current IMC qualified pilot will be a better bet than an out-of-practice IR qualified one (I know; I was the second one until recently and still need a bit more practice :eek: ).

Difference between IMC & IR about £14000!!!!!!!

And a lot of stress and yearly renewals ( = more ££)

Sorry for less than serious comment.

Rather than keep the IMC current in the usual way, so long as your FAA IR remians current, why can't you just 're-apply' and have the IMC added again without having to do any flight test? After all you meet all the requirements to be exempted from all ground exams and flight tests for the initial IMC application....When I applied for my IMC based on my IR, there was a box on the form asking when my IR expired. Now with the FAA IR it doesn't expire so long as you remain current, so as I couldn't think of anything better to put down, I just bunged down two years...and now my IMC is valid until the date I put in the box. Maybe I should have put 10 years in the box :)

I wonder why they feel the need to make airways class A airspace? I would rather fly cross channel at 8000' than at 3000', but unfortunately as I don't have a JAA IR, my ceiling is limited to 3499' (where I live anyway). Should be Class A above a certian FL, for example FL100, and below this something else, or have an excemption in place allowing IMC holders into airways, but not nescessarily other class A airspace.

On the subject of IMC v IR, I would say, as has been pointed out previously, currency is the key. However, getting the IR requires a fair bit of extra training compared to the IMC rating, but after you are rated, its how you use it that counts.

Cheers
EA:)

I wonder why they feel the need to make airways class A airspace? I would rather fly cross channel at 8000' than at 3000', but unfortunately as I don't have a JAA IR, my ceiling is limited to 3499' (where I live anyway). Should be Class A above a certian FL, for example FL100, and below this something else, or have an excemption in place allowing IMC holders into airways, but not nescessarily other class A airspace.

Other jurisdictions have class A above 17999 MSL, low level airways class E, and transponders required above 10000 MSL. Seems to work fine, but attitudes to recreational pilots differ in different parts of the world.

Class A airways and to the surface is assinine, it would make more sense to use Class B. Even a mere VFR PPL could then request a clearance into the Class B and if workload permitted it ATC could oblige. You could then do your cross channel trip more safely, and isn't that what it's all about?

As an aside, I was on a 777 recently with those moving maps, and I was watching the altitude and distance from the destination (a class B airport in the US). At one point, the 777 was below 10,000 MSL and outside the 30nm Class B Mode C veil.

That means a large transport jet was in airspace where a non-transponder equipped fabric plane could legally be flying. Although the US system's use and classification of airspace makes far more sense than the UK, I'm not sure about that one.