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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

Mike Flynn 17th Sep 2016 17:16

The Australian HCAP questioning the TCT medal in a 'disparaging' way is interesting.

I understand the Hong Kong branch have also joined them.

It also appears a few Past Masters are also speaking out privately but a core of the Court feel too embarrassed to change anything but the wording of the citation to the Masters Medal.

When in a hole stop digging:ok:

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 17th Sep 2016 17:30

Q. From the following list;
a) Which name(s) should not be on it?
b) Which name should be on it?

-Amelia Earhart
-Jaqueline Cochran
-Bessie Coleman
-Sally Ride
-Amy Johnson
-Valentina Tereshkova
-Harriet Quimby
-Shiela Scott
-Tracey Curtis Taylor
-Patty Wagstaff

A. a) Tracey Curtis Taylor. b) Lady Mary Heath.

Having TCT in this article 10 outstanding women from aviation history - Features - Pilot
and omitting Lady Mary is an affront to all female aviators.

Planemike 17th Sep 2016 17:49

Add Beryl Markham to the list.............

She flew the North Atlantic the "wrong way", solo.......... absolutely no doubt about it.

Mike Flynn 17th Sep 2016 21:29

I have just written to the New Zealand branch of the Honourable Company Of Air Pilots.

They must be so proud in Auckland having such a heroine as Tracy Curtis Taylor who learnt to fly warbirds and was an instructor at Ardmore.

Tracey migrated to New Zealand and began flying in earnest. She
gained her private pilot’s licence, commercial licence and an instructor rating and, unusual
for a woman, was trained by military pilots to fly World War II aeroplanes with the New
Zealand Warbird Association.
http://www.birdinabiplane.com/biog/

That alone is worthy of an award. 'Unusual for a woman was trained by military pilots'.

One wonders why no other female had ventured in the Ardmore clubhouse before Tracey?

Was it the macho male culture? This was of course the 1990's.

You have to ask why women were isolated from this sort of flying in Auckland New Zealand before Tracey broke down the barriers?

The NZ flying community is very reserved and unassuming.

I doubt they have ever had a female 'Aviatrix' before and she really must have pushed back the boundaries for female pilots in a land where women still make cups of tea,lamington cakes and do the washing up.

When Tracey first arrived at Ardmore it must have been a historic moment.

A woman who wants to fly?

However I feel we should encourage them to support one of their own.

I can visualise the report now on TVNZ as Tracey stands alongside spaceman Tim Peake.

'One small step for a man...one giant leap for womankind'

The old British colonies such as Australia,New Zealand and indeed Hong Kong are still close to our hearts in the UK.

It would help if you emailed them suggesting a citation to Tracey Curtis Taylor to be read out prior her award at the dinner in October.
Maybe something from this story.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-legs-own.html

The Honourable Company of Air Pilots
New Zealand Region
2 The Glebe
Howick
Auckland 2014
New Zealand
E- Mail: [email protected]

Honourable Company of Air Pilots, Australian Region Inc

Postal Address:

PO Box 454
Berowra
NSW 2081

Telephone:

+61(0)450 438 538
Email general enquiries:

[email protected]

Whirlybird 17th Sep 2016 21:54

Jay, I absolutely can't tell if your last post is serious or not. If by any chance it was, how about Jean Batten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Batten

Mike Flynn 17th Sep 2016 22:17

Easy life Whirly..

Jean Batten,Lady Mary Heath,Amy Johnson,Amelia Earhart. Who cares?

They never had to cope with a film crew, a logistics manager and a PR crew like Tracey Curtis Taylor.

Life is a lot harder now.

You never know when a camera is taking a bad shot and you have to manage the media.

Then of course there is remembering the script.

Swooping low,fog banks,sandstorms the military escorts and crocodiles in the Timor Sea.

Australia..searing heat with dirt airstrips...driving to pick up jerry cans of fuel from farmers and Aboriginal airstrips.

Meanwhile the PR guys are working on how they get the airline captain out of the front seat in Sydney without the TV and media noticing. Loads of free champagne and food normally does the trick.

There are similarities to Donald Crowhurst http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3319730/.

The movie The Mercy is realeased in the New Year. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...n-firth-903904

B Fraser 18th Sep 2016 08:22

I think it's time for a little light satire using some very selective but accurate facts.


Satire mode on.....


Has everyone forgotten aviatrix and brand ambassador Hanna Reitsch ?


She flew a helicopter indoors, a V-1 bomb and a Me-163 amongst a huge list of warbird types flown. There was never a Lufthansa pilot sitting in a front seat. She was trained by the military and at times flew at 15 feet over the streets of Berlin while running errands for the boss. She also had to deal with film crews, logistics and PR organised by that nice man Mr Goebbels. Her jaunts across the skies of Europe were subject to "everything that could be thrown or fired at a pilot" and I reckon she even carried her own bags.


After the global bout of unpleasantness died down, she opened gliding schools in both India and Ghana. In particular, she "reached out" to women encouraging them to take up aviation.


Eric Winkle Brown (no less) has commended favourably her aviation skills even though in one interview, he stated that she perhaps "reached out for women" rather too often.


Satire mode off.

Genghis the Engineer 18th Sep 2016 09:53

I was sat next to EMwB at a conference dinner in Dresden a few years ago. Generally, if you found yourself sat with him, you kept your conversation minimal, and just nudged him to carry on if he stopped talking.

He started telling an anecdote about Hannah Reitsch.

In surprise, I asked "So you knew Hannah Reitsch ?"

"Oh yes", he said, "very well".

I think that my eyebrows may have risen somewhat at that point as he carried on...

"Not that well, trust me, you wouldn't want to".

G

9 lives 18th Sep 2016 12:43

For my observation, the people who really make outstanding accomplishments in any endeavor, though particularly aviation, no matter what their gender, are rarely those people who can be heard to say "hey, look at me!". There great accomplishments, whether an instantaneous feat, or lifetime achievement are noticed after the fact, and duly celebrated. So for me, the "what me", "look at what I did" pilots are an afterthought, if thought at all.

I suppose anyone doing anything to promote honourable piloting is helping our pastime and industry, but in the context of what others around them may be quietly accomplishing, they are not worthy of personal celebration.

I have been inspired by pilots of achievement like Hannah Reitsch, because what those pilots accomplished was so self evidently awesome - they did not have to tell me for me to know.

This is not thread drift from the TCT topic, but I just can't raise myself to award her any celebration. In my mind now, the only thing she could do to really redeem herself to aviation and female pilots, would be to decline any awards, quietly drop out of the spotlight, and then without attaching any public reference to herself, offer up some meaningful aviation scholarships.

First_Principal 18th Sep 2016 21:57

Something positive to come out of this?
 

Originally Posted by Jay Sata (Post 9510862)
At the centre of all this is current Master Peter Benn who will have to give her the award, in front of a disapproving audience, having played no part in the circus.
.....
I hear the Master now sees it as a matter over which he would resign rather than face the fact that the HCAP court have, in more than one meeting, decided not to back down.
:ok:

I live at a long arm's length from these shenanigans (albeit I too have flown - and worked on - 'warbirds' in New Zealand) so my interest has been somewhat muted compared to some on here.

For this reason perhaps I've been inclined to treat both the fierce criticism of Ms C-T, and her achievements with the gravity it is due, coming as it does from a 'rumour network'. All too aware of the 'Streisand effect' I've wondered a bit about whether all the hot air has really been worth it...

However I have learned a little of the 'HCAP', an organisation I've only become aware of via this august site. While I haven't really had much of an opinion on this group per se I can perhaps understand the consternation that must be apparent in its ranks, given the revelations that appear to have come about with regard to this aviatrix and their - now controversial - proposed award.

That said if what JS says above is true I am heartened to read that there are people within the organisation that genuinely understand the meaning (and sometime exquisite pain) of honour. Whether he ultimately chooses to resign or not, I tip my hat to Mr Benn for at least considering such. A man worthy of his rank in the HCAP I feel, and a real Lt-Cmdr (RNR) to boot.

FP.

Checklist Charlie 19th Sep 2016 04:54

I see Madam will be 'speaking" at 4PM, Monday 19th September at St Johns College, Southsea.

Standby to be enthralled.

CC

bruceg 19th Sep 2016 19:34

Tracey was due to speak at the Royal London Yacht Club in Cowes on 13th October 2016. Black tie do. Cost about 35 I believe. I have just been told that she has cancelled her talk and will not be attending. Excuse - I am going to China!


bg

Mike Flynn 19th Sep 2016 20:34

TCT and Royal London Yacht Club
 
That is interesting.

That means she will not be in the UK for Saturday 22nd October 2016.

The day of the Light Aircraft Association AGM when Barry Tempest's motion to rescind her LAA 'navigation award' will be put to the vote:ok:
With his now legendary quote...

Your claimed exploits have put the cause of Women in Aviation back 40 years"
My thanks to LAA member Chris Martyr.

I feel that it's a little unnecessary now to see photos of a certain green aircraft and who did what , where , when and why , we are past all that. In my opinion , a small amount of people have done a superb job in bringing this all to light and I think that as far as the LAA are concerned , they can consider a good job done [bar the voting].

After the AGM, I think a precedent will have been set and it is highly likely that , due to certain forums having a worldwide following , many will be watching this very closely indeed .

I should reiterate : This is not some rabble-rousing call to arms and there may indeed be members with differing views on this and whichever way the vote goes , I for one will accept it with grace and dignity, afterwhich I intend to revert back to more wholesome activities like flying a traditional little VW powered tailwheeler out of a little grass airstrip in rural Sussex.
It has been suggested to me that she will not attend the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awards dinner less than a week later.

Philip Whiteman at Pilot has assured me the online story below will be edited to replace Tracey Curtis Taylor with Lady Mary Heath.She does not deserve to have her name and reputation exploited posthumously by an attention seeker who could not be bothered to fly a British aircraft of the period in her 'emulation'.
10 outstanding women from aviation history - Features - Pilot
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/1c...0_0.00_png_srz


http://nerdalicious.com.au/wp-conten...Lady-Heath.jpg

Mike Flynn 19th Sep 2016 23:28

Tracey Curtis Taylor: Removal of Daily Mail story on Wiki
 
It appears the TCT PR people are not happy with her wiki entry.

A new contributor , Aviation History, has removed the text referring to the Daily Mail for the following reason...

This discussion is part of a discrediting campaign in forums and the tabloid press. It was started by the logistics manager in Africa, after the cooperation with him was terminated ahead of schedule due to serious troubles with his tasks, the flight planning, legal documents and finally the safety of the entire team
However Ewald Gritsch,the airline pilot who restored the Spirit of Artemis, told the Daily Mail...

Gritsch admits he was in the forward cockpit for ‘the majority’ of the flights from Cape Town to Goodwood and Farnborough to Sydney. He said: ‘The situation was that it was not a solo flight.’


Read more: 'Solo' flying poster girl is brought down by claims that she had co-pilot | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Here is Aviation History's edit.

Taylor's logistics manager Sam Rutherford accused her of "embellishing the truth" about her flights. He asserted that the BBC4 documentary The Woman Who Flew Africa: The Aviatrix misleadingly portrayed her flights as being solo, when in fact for all but four of the 36 legs of the trip, she had been accompanied in the plane by Ewald Gritsch, a highly experienced pilot and owner of the plane. In addition, Rutherford criticised the documentary's description of the Cape Town to Goodwood flight as "ten thousand miles with no modern technology, just a joystick and pedals" when in reality the aircraft was equipped with the latest navigational devices and GPS. Curtis-Taylor responded to the claim that she was accompanied during most of her time in the air by stating that she had always been the sole pilot of the Spirit of Artemis.[26] This discussion is part of a discrediting campaign in forums and the tabloid press. It was started by the logistics manager in Africa, after the cooperation with him was terminated ahead of schedule due to serious troubles with his tasks, the flight planning, legal documents and finally the safety of the entire team.

Tabloid press?

What about the UK's number one general aviation magazine?
http://s13.postimg.org/5kq94ea07/image.jpg


None of us find much to admire in pretend solo flights with GPS guidance and support aircraft following all the way"
is the verdict of the entire Pilot Magazine editorial crew to quote editor Philip Whiteman.

I get a mention and blame in the new edit history on wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...action=history


I should point out that I have never met or indeed had any personal contact with Tracey Curtis Taylor,Sam Rutherford or anyone involved with the whole Bird in a Biplane shenanigans.

I started this thread for no other reason than exposing the truth that Tracey Curtis Taylor has blatantly lied about her so called aviatrix exploits.

All my posts have contained pictures and text that prove that Boeing and Artemis have deceived the worlds media.

None of the Bird in a Biplane team,Tracey Curtis Taylor,Boeing Aircraft Corporation , Artemis or Nylon Films have commented or defended themselves in either the Daily Mail,Canada National Post or here on Pprune.

Tracey is the architect of her own undoing.

A senior display pilot at Duxford summed her up to me in a private post.

She leaves a wake of mayhem.
Here in the USA not so long ago she was claiming to have flown solo in Africahttp://s21.postimg.org/9m5vcm67b/image.jpg

Her script of flying solo and swooping low level over herds of Wildebeest is fiction as this picture and others prove. There is no low level flying here. Airline pilot Ewald Gritsch confessed it is him in the front seat.http://s13.postimg.org/ok063w807/image.jpg

If you sit on the back seat of a tandem how the hell can you prove you are pedalling ?

Genghis the Engineer 19th Sep 2016 23:37


Philip Whiteman at Pilot has assured me the online story below will be edited to replace Tracey Curtis Taylor with Lady Mary Heath.She does not deserve to have her name and reputation exploited posthumously by an attention seeker who could not be bothered to fly a British aircraft of the period in her 'emulation'.
10 outstanding women from aviation history - Features - Pilot
Quite right too, even if you believed TCT's exploits were genuinely self driven and solo, she's not even close to the league of the others mentioned in that article.

G

Sam Rutherford 20th Sep 2016 03:59

Quote: "This discussion is part of a discrediting campaign in forums and the tabloid press. It was started by the logistics manager in Africa, after the cooperation with him was terminated ahead of schedule due to serious troubles with his tasks, the flight planning, legal documents and finally the safety of the entire team."

Bring it on!

1. Not sure it was started by me!
2. Notwithstanding that, I got involved after she started winning awards she did not deserve, depriving those who did deserve them (or even nobody at all would be better!).
3. My contract actually ran longer than expected, and I left at exactly the same time as everyone else on the team - I do like the demonstrably false claims, saves all the 'he said, she said' stuff. :-)

It'll be a great shame if she's not at the HCAP Awards dinner - I know a few people who are planning a robust Q&A.

Stanwell 20th Sep 2016 05:45

Oh, I just love that line...
"This discussion is part of a discrediting campaign .."

"Discredit: verb; .. To cause (someone or something) to seem dishonest or untrue."
Ahem!

Some might remember that classic movie, "Where Eagles Dare".
(Just a little bit of related trivia .. The title of that film comes from a line in Shakespeare's Richard III ..
"The world is grown so bad that wrens make pray where eagles dare not perch.")
I can relate that to the TCT saga.

Anyway, within that movie, at the Schloss Adler, there's an altercation between Major von Hapen and Colonel Kramer.
An extract from that scene:
Major von Hapen .. ".. I am also aware of your attempts to discredit me with my superiors in Berlin."
Colonel Kramer .. "Sir, if there is any discredit - you bring it upon yourself... Good night!"

I think that exchange could also be pertinent to this farce.

.

maxred 20th Sep 2016 10:47


"This discussion is part of a discrediting campaign .."
The Whistleblower invariably has to undergo a full smear campaign, and generally public bodies are the worst for this. You just have to look at the NHS, where whistleblowers are driven out, demonised, discredited as liars, despite the NHS actually promoting, "safe whistleblowing". Google is your friend here.

The TCT campaign is evidently flawed and wrong. Sam has spoken out. Others have now looked closely, and the facts are there for all to see. Be it photographs, presentations, slide shows. It is now all Sam Rutherford's fault. Sadly, follows a well worn path. Keep it going Sam and Jay. The truth will be dragged out fully in the end.

Capn Bug Smasher 20th Sep 2016 12:34


3. My contract actually ran longer than expected, and I left at exactly the same time as everyone else on the team - I do like the demonstrably false claims
That's libel then, isn't it?

Jonzarno 20th Sep 2016 22:10


Excuse - I am going to China!
Will that be solo? :E:p


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