P1 hours after skills test but before PPL issues.
 

Hello everyone,

I am due to do my Skills test on my next flight. My understanding is that once passed you are legally entitled to fly solo but not take passengers until you physically have the license in your hand. However do these solo hours count towards P1 and the minimum hours required for ratings such as IR and CPL? Would hate to fly solo and not be able to count them. Any feedback much appreciated.

Cheers,
Danny.

They need to be authorised by an instructor, correct that you can't carry pax. PiC hours are valid for anything, the system doesn’t care what licence you had - or not - when you flew them.

G

Genghis

I have agonised over this issue for a number of years and I wonder whether you could point me to the legal instrument or similar that provides for this in order to put my mind at rest?

Article 7 to Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 (the Basic Regulation) includes:

in this case, the OP would not be the the holder of licence after his successful skill test until he has it in his sweaty palm (the fact of which he is clearly aware). However, the training for his licence would have finished and a course completion certificate issued prior to his skill test, ergo he is no longer under training. It seems to me that any such "supervision" of solo flights on the part of an instructor would therefore be outwith the scope of Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 (the Aircrew Regulation).

No trying to be contentious here, and this would indeed appear to be common practice, but I was wondering whether you are aware of an angle that I have not considered?

Many thanks

Depends on the legal definition of "under training" in this specific context? - the punter could go to a school and say "please can I have some further training in solo cross-country navigation"?

Most (all?) of us are "under training" at various stages after the initial grant of the licence, so why not in the gap before?

In EASA land, until you have your license back and you sign it, you are PUT. You can continue to fly with an instructor, and anyone else you like in the back, or you can be authorised to fly solo by an instructor. You can't have passengers unless you have an instructor with you at the controls.

'wot John and Gertrude said.

It's signed off as further supervised solo training. But, if it's solo, it's obviously PiC, and the world doesn't question whether it was supervised as solo training, or just plain "gone flying" so long as the entries are legitimately in the PiC column of a logbook.

G

When I passed my driving test in 1967 the examiner gave me a "pink slip" which entitled me to drive myself home from the test centre there and then which I duly did, and then after that I continued to drive with all and sundry on board using that same pink slip until my licence arrived in the post.
So much for progress.

Thanks everyone for your replies so far, very helpful.

This does not say that you have to be under training for a Licence or Rating

I think that, if an Instructor examines your preparation/planning, authorises your flight, supervises the progress of the flight, and debriefs you after the flight, you are, by any reasonable definition of the term, 'under training'.

I believe that, in such a case, the onus would fall on anyone who contested this view to prove their case.


MJ:ok:

Ps. In 'EASA Land' there is no such thing as PUT, PuT, Pu/t, or P/ut. only 'Dual'

Thanks, all.

Surely a student pilot waiting for the issue of the PPL still holds a Student Pilot's Licence and therefore meets that requirement as long as they are flying under the supervision of an instructor.

Student pilot's licence? Whassat ?

G

It says "medical certificate" on it, I was always told.

It's something you actually needed to have to go solo when I learnt! In fact my first solo was delayed because it had not come through from the CAA, not long after they did incorporate it into the medical certificate, not sure it still says that though?

I am confused. What EXACTLY does the OP mean by "skills test"? If it is final license ride, in EASA land you are grounded right after your ride until you get your part.FCL in hand. With passing license check ride, you are no longer in training, so regulations for student training are no longer valid and you do not hold the license in hand, which is required to be allowed to fly. I just had this information from a friend of mine lately flying to his final PPL check on a flight order from his ATO and had to be driven back by his girlfriend, because his examiner insisted that he has no legal chance to fly after passing PPL - even though there seem to be some pilots to fly to their exam ride on training order from ATO, this appears to be no longer valid once passed. Can anybody confirm that out of EASAland?

I think that he probably means the "skills test", as defined in EASA-FCL, etc.

Not that I've ever seen.

Nonsense - training goes on throughout every pilot's flying career.

Except under training.

He cannot fly UNSUPERVISED. He can fly dual training, or solo supervised training.

Exam ride is not a legally defined term, it's called a skill test.

G

Ye Gods, they have just passed a friggin flying test. Let the buggers fly without restriction if they want to.
Waiting for arrival of paperwork is a pointless formality.

:=

You haven't got the hang of this EASA lark have you.

Is it? It would be interesting to know the number of licence applications that are justifiably rejected.

I would suspect very few!