Advice on airplane to buy
 

I am currently getting my Pilot License. I have yet to decide on a plane to buy. It's primary use is to travel about 550 NM without refueling, needs to be fly 125 knts+ and be able to seat 3-4 people with a low gallons/liter/hr.
It will not be going into mountains terrain, or too much in icy conditions. I am not rich so it can't run too much.


I was looking at the Jabiru 430 but I cant find any to buy in the US, I have also heard there is a lot of trouble with them. Any suggestions?


Thank you!

Relative to the "norms" of GA aircraft (like a C 172) , 125 knts for low fuel burn, and "not too much" is not going to happen, and no icy conditions whatever. You'll have to consider if you want certified vs non certified, though if you seriously intend to carry 4 people, there are few non certified choices.

A 550 NM range will be a stretch for most lower cost 4 place aircraft, while carrying 4 people, and really, 4 people in a 4 place aircraft traveling a more realistic 100 knts will not want to be in the air for 5.5 hours at a time anyway. Thousands of pilots and owners have been quite happy with the economy and capability of C 172/182/Cherokee for many decades, as you continue your training, consider the real world uses you would put the plane to, and then put the lesser capability you commonly need, if you really have to, you might rent bigger or faster. Search this forum, you'll find lots of discussion on 4 place aircraft choice...

Suppose you were to acquire a plane with real capacity for four grown-ups - which will likely mean a six-seater - how much of the time would you be using that capacity? It is quite expensive, though, in initial cost AND in maintenance AND in fuel burn. You might well be much better off to buy a performant two-seater or a lowly four-seater, and rent something bigger on these (rare) occasions you need to.

An RV10 might fit your requirements?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv10.htm

Modern, sleek and efficient 4-seat experimentals are probably outside your budget.

A nicely sorted Grumman AA5 is probably just a fit for your requirements and will likely run to about $40-60K and should be insurable for a low-time pilot.

4+ hour legs in a light single is quite demanding on crew and passengers. Having 3 hrs plus IFR reserves will open up a bit more choice.

An AA5b anyhow - I don't think that the speed or payload of my AA5a or a Traveller would come as close.

G

If you want to fly 3-4 adults and any luggage at all, you'll probably want a C182 or Cherokee 235. Both are going to burn 11-13 gal/hr depending on how fast you want to go.

Not a lot of people like spending 5 hrs at a time in a small, noisy airplane. 2-3 hr legs are much more pleasant. Four hours was about my absolute max endurance, and that was when I was 30 years younger.

And since you're still learning to fly, I'll tell you it's also a lot more pleasant having two hrs fuel on board when you arrive than 30 minutes. Stuff happens, headwinds appear and tailwinds disappear, detours become necessary. Have personally seen several aircraft wrecked that ran out of fuel five to ten miles short of destination. I once HAD to go 5 hrs in an airplane that fortunately carried fuel for 6 because of weather. I never let that happen again.

I'd second all the above. I have a TR182 - flies at 155-165 knots depending on altitude and what mood it's in, on 14-15 gph. But with 4 adults it's limited to about 3 hours - say 500 miles - with sensible reserves - less if the adults in question are all fairly heavy. (I have never landed it with less than 1 hour of fuel in the tanks). Apart from being a bit faster than your requirements, it doesn't really meet them. It's fairly expensive, by 35-year old spam can standards, and not particularly cheap to operate.

Flying 4+ hours is hard work, for the pilot and passengers. I once took a 172 down to LA - 3 hours in each direction - and it was seriously tiring (and quite boring).

I'd rethink what you really need when you have a bit more experience. A fuel stop on those 550 mile journeys will make everyone a lot happier.

Certainly the RV10 is the aircraft for the job, usefull load of around 1100lbs and quick, but if you can afford one or even find one without going down the build yourself route is another question!:}

A quick excerpt from my logbooks.

AA5b

September 2011

Enstone (Oxford) --> Liege (Belgium) 3hrs 10 mins
Liege --> Bubovice (Prague) 4hrs 00mins

Shaving off the taxi time at each end, that looks roughly like this...

Great Circle Mapper

Two reasonably large adults, two folding bicycles, two people's worth of significant baggage.


That's an example of what you can do with aN affordable light aeroplane.


In my opinion, the first thing to go on your spec should be the cruise speed. If you can accept a bit over 100kts, you'll find far more suitable and affordable aircraft types for only a small reduction in journey time. IIRC, that AA5b was actually giving us about 115kn CAS, but the wind was against us somewhat.


Types I'd look at, in roughly escalating cost and capability:-

AA5b
Cessna 172 (various models)
PA28-181
C182
PA28-235
PA28-200R

I know and have flown the Jabiru 4 seater, it's great, but it's sub-ICAO, so you'll not be able to easily use it internationally, and I don't think that many exist outside of the UK and Australia anyhow. Also I suspect you won't get much product support in the USA for either the airframe or the engine.

I'd strongly recommend getting your PPL behind you first, so that you're in a better position to assess aeroplanes.

And yes, anything above about 2.5hrs in a light aeroplane is pretty gruelling. 550nm I'd do in two hops if you conceivably can. I am used to long light aircraft trips, but rarely let myself do more than about 300nm between breaks on the ground, whatever the aeroplane's capable of.

G

The OP appears to be based in the USA Genghis - if so international flight probably not a requirement.

Probably several 4 seat experimental aircraft types available over there that would fit the bill, including the afore-mentioned RV10

Well, there's a BD-4C on Barnstormers at the moment, or you can build your own at their facility in Florida.

They claim 1100lb payload, 170 mph cruise and 900 mile range!

RV-10s tend to sell in the $150-200K range, still a lot less than an SR-22.

could try a cessna 177rg which, depending on how heavy your passengers are should just about manage it:

with a good prop and clean airframe should do 125kias or tick more at 65% for about 38-40l hour,

full fuel (231L) will give you roughly 6 hours to dry leaving about 290kg for passengers/luggage.

Yes a Cessna 177RG 200hp 950lb pay load -300lbs 50US gals Range 750 some have 60gal tanks with 130nts cruise at 8000t 650lbs for passengers best handling of all the Cessnas. Has small wheels so not so good for soft field operation but semi short field or FG with 180hp lower cruise 120kt but still good performer. Good club in the States Cardinal Flyers. They both performer better than the Pipe with the same engines.

As you should know by now:

4 seaters become 2 seaters when fueled up for range.

it is either 4 people , or 550 miles range.

If you want the 4 people AND the range, you should start looking at 6 seaters.

Vilters: You can get 550NM out of an Arrow with 4 people in it.

Any Mooneys fit in here? We had an M20E way back. Four seats and quite fast.