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-   -   Surveillance Mandatory Zones if infringements aren't cut (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/563469-surveillance-mandatory-zones-if-infringements-arent-cut.html)

Maulkin 23rd Jun 2015 18:24

Surveillance Mandatory Zones if infringements aren't cut
 
Looks like CAA are getting very miffed (rightly so) about infringements: http://www.flyer.co.uk/aviation-news/newsfeed.php?artnum=2316

ak7274 23rd Jun 2015 19:58

Create more airspace and wonder why the Proletariat infringe? How about working out a solution instead?

maxred 23rd Jun 2015 22:02

And also how about making it a bit less complicated. The drive for years was to cut infringements, whilst loading up more and more CTZ. Also Military Danger Areas are springing up all over the bloody place. Flying is really not what it used to be....:confused::confused:

Mach Jump 23rd Jun 2015 22:33


Failure to achieve the target could see the future introduction of surveillance mandatory zones (SMZ) to provide a conspicuity buffer around particular hotspot, continued the CAA. The aim of the SMZ will be to provide a ‘known traffic environment’ around the hotspot’s class D airspace. This could lead to a requirement for the mandatory use of radios and/or transponders in that buffer area.
So the solution to infringements is to make the restricted areas bigger? :rolleyes:

Sounds like a policy that will encourage even more pilots to fly with their transponders switched off. :ugh:


MJ:ok:

robin 23rd Jun 2015 22:46

Looking over the GA Occurrence reports it is clear there are a lot on infringements, but it isn't clear how serious they are.

My feeling is that certain airfields have been 'encouraged' to report whereas once upon a time, they didn't

I guess it is a drive to create or extend Class D and avoid the hassle of a full-blown airspace change.

We've seen how quickly a TMZ or RMZ can be created compared to a change of Airspace Class. The SMZ is a natural and cheaper extension of this

ShyTorque 23rd Jun 2015 23:01

I suggest that a lot of infringements occur near "choke points" between CAS. The narrower the gap, the more likely pilots are to bust the adjacent airspace.

Mach Jump 23rd Jun 2015 23:08


We've seen how quickly a TMZ or RMZ can be created compared to a change of Airspace Class. The SMZ is a natural and cheaper extension of this
An SMZ is a TMZ and an RMZ combined.

Just Class D by the back door.:*


MJ:ok:

xrayalpha 24th Jun 2015 09:02

MJ,

An SMZ is a Class D+ !

No need for a transponder to access Class D in Scotland.

londonblue 24th Jun 2015 09:18


So the solution to infringements is to make the restricted areas bigger?

Sounds like a policy that will encourage even more pilots to fly with their transponders switched off.


MJ
Sound to me like something Douglas Adams would have thought up.


“Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich. [...]

"But we have also," continued the management consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying on ship's peanut." [...]

"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and...er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances.”

maxred 24th Jun 2015 09:57

Superb Londonblue

There are many that could be related to the airspace philosophy


Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of.
and


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

Genghis the Engineer 24th Jun 2015 11:18

I'm having fun with one at the moment - allegedly I climbed into a bit of CTA in speeds and climb rates of which the aeroplane I was flying was incapable, on a sortie where I had no reason to fly that high, whilst mode-S was squawking hex code but not reg. We checked the mode S a few weeks later with the same tower, and they could read reg and hex both - no maintenance done on same box in between.

I pointed out that it probably wasn't me for these reasons, and was subsequently the unhappy recipient of an email suggesting that I was not showing the right attitude and probably needed reporting to CAA for licencing action. Everybody can probably guess, without being told, the tone of my response to that.

I don't dispute that putting big and little aeroplanes in the same place at the same time is a bad thing unless properly controlled, but there's a distinct attitude problem in the airspace allocating community that is as much in need of fixing as anybody's navigation here. Also just possibly the technology isn't quite as good as NATS think it is at detecting these things.

G

soaringhigh650 24th Jun 2015 13:56

So they made most of UK airspace Class A, extremely complex, inaccessible to VFR flights and boundaries hard to understand.

And now they are having a go at the pilots?

It's completely embarrassing. We can clearly see what needs simplifying.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...650/london.jpg

Source: SkyDemon

flybymike 24th Jun 2015 14:41


I pointed out that it probably wasn't me for these reasons, and was subsequently the unhappy recipient of an email suggesting that I was not showing the right attitude and probably needed reporting to CAA for licencing action. Everybody can probably guess, without being told, the tone of my response to that.
Genghis, if that email wasn't from the CAA who was it from? The ATC unit?

flybymike 24th Jun 2015 14:45


It's completely embarrassing. We can clearly see what needs simplifying.

I hope you made it safely from Cambridge to Worthing in one piece.....

ETOPS 24th Jun 2015 16:45

Talk about "soaring high" :eek:

Looks like he's planned that at FL350...

soaringhigh650 24th Jun 2015 17:24

At 7500ft actually which what I use to cruise over New York.

We don't even have airspace 'alerts' here. Using the popular UK Skydemon tool there's about a dozen 'issues' I still have ta sort out.

ShyTorque 24th Jun 2015 18:56

Just do it, SH... I'm sure they'll understand; obviously it's just the entire system that's wrong, not you..

P.s. please post pics of the Typhoons on your wingtips.

Genghis the Engineer 24th Jun 2015 21:39


Originally Posted by flybymike (Post 9023006)
Genghis, if that email wasn't from the CAA who was it from? The ATC unit?

NATS.

G


(Random text to meet 10 character minimum).

Romeo Tango 25th Jun 2015 10:36

If you think our airspace is complicated .... have you been to France?
In the good old days they had a very sensible Gallic attitude and no one really minded if one flew through the odd bit of red air ... but now they have AA missiles mounted on the power stations :(

Pirke 25th Jun 2015 12:12

@Skydemon picture above: as a software developer I would seriously try to find a line drawing bug when looking at that, as that can't be correct...


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