One poster has mentioned that Popham was closed due to surface conditions. Whilst this was true yesterday, it would have not mattered if we had a weather divert or an emergency, Popham will never turn away an aircraft that needs to come in.

I was at Lee on the Solent on the day of this tragic accident, and binned all my flying due to an estimated 300 foot cloud base and appalling vis.
I cant believe anyone would have departed Bembridge in those conditions. Even with an IR and well equipped aircraft, I would have thought twice. However, lets wait for the AAIB report before we speculate.
Tragic loss of life!

Yes, I remember the day of the Colin MacRae helio crash, where he wiped out his small son, a friend, and another young child. I was at an airfield close by, and decided it was just too crap to fly. On the road home, I heard the first reports coming through. Like you, my first thought was, why anyone would go up in that, particularly with young family. I waited for the report, and guess what. Nothing wrong with the aeroplane, everything wrong with the pilot, again......

I am getting pretty sick about reading all these reports, where guys take off, with family members on board, generally youngsters, and plough it in. The seven year old survivor of the latest one in the States, makes totally despairing reading. I am actually beginning to wonder what it is all about..

This is a real conundrum for me.
I've got two children of 8 and 11. I regularly fly with the 11 year old as he really enjoys it and I must admit I'm pretty paranoid about safety with him (I've even bought him nomex coveralls and gloves) but of course I can't cover all eventualities.

What if we have a bird strike and I'm knocked out, what if we had a mid-air, what if I hit a sheep half-way down my PFL field etc etc?
Should I make him wear a helmet?
I got an IMC rating last year and I know lots of people say it's only safe if you use it regularly but should I use it in real IMC with my son on board or not?

I'd like to think that I wouldn't have taken off in the wx on Sunday (but I wasn't there) but I would genuinely appreciate guidance on how others manage this. There are some days I feel I should never take him up again as the risks are too great but then you can kill yourself crossing the road.
I don't ever want to be the person deemed to have put my kids in a position of unacceptable risk.

My condolences to the family at this terrible time for them.

Dax, it is the eternal conundrum. I also have two kids, now aged 9, and 14. The 14 year old now has 10 hours of Cub time. He has also flown the Bo quite a bit. He is good. They have flown with me on many adventures. It was because of them that I spent a lot of time and money, gaining IMC, Night, and nearly, almost there, my FAA IR. It was actually all for them. I also do plenty of instructor led recurrent.

Now, I can understand that accidents/events, can happen. Despite every precaution, you can still error. It is life. However, if it is truly bad, bad as to let's drive, let's go Easyjet, let's get a train, I would like to think that my whole life experience would tell me to do that. Evidently, some people, decide that it is worth the risk.

The States one was a long flight from Key West to Illinois, in a Seneca, three kids, and wife. It was very doable, but.........IFR, night, known icing, and a line of T cells. Would I have done it? I like to think not.

This one, in a Permit aircraft, with known low level crud, all the way. 300 foot cloud base, and yet they go. I honestly just do not get it..

I sincerely hope the wee chap pulls through, and has some decent extended family..

Dax and Max

All those thoughts have passed through my head today, not helped by speaking to a friend who hasn't flown since the kids were born. My kids love it and ask "when can we go?" all the time. I lost a colleague who crashed with his family on board some years ago. I don't know when you decide it's too much of a risk but naturally wx is going to keep me on the ground.

Feel desperately sad for the boy. I cannot imagine my son in that situation.

I started a Thread just over a year ago entitled 'Motorway Flying' to highlight the dangers of flying in poor weather conditions. I was generally ridiculed.

The following is one of the more memorable replies:

Sadly two people are no longer here to tell the tale and a young boy has been orphaned.

I have survived for 40 years as a pilot by not being gung-ho, by following the rules and by passing on the knowledge I have gained to others.

It's not ironic - wish it was - but tragic that someone has succumbed to the very dangers I tried to point out in my Thread.

I, for one, am not laughing now.

SITW

I was on the ground driving not too far north of Popham at around 4pm on Saturday (just before news of this accident broke) and observed what looked like the Thames Valley Police helicopter proceeding south at low-level. As it turns out, it may well have been on it's way to the area of the accident.

It was at low-level, I estimate 500' at the most, just beneath the cloudbase. The horizontal viz was actually not too bad, I estimate >5k at least (and possibly more), but I remember thinking it was a day when not a lot else would be flying. I was shocked when news of the accident broke just after I got home.

The conditions weren't transient either, it was like that most of the day in the area, with heavy rain earlier.

A local TV Report (BBC South) was at Popham today, where people on the ground reported hearing an aircraft pass over "very low" just before the accident. No radio calls were received.

A tragic accident that didn't need to happen.

Now Spanner I,m not sure it that is completely accurate, if I recall correctly you got harangued because you were going to grass up the guy for flying low in bad weather.

You do recall correctly. The pilot concerned robustly defended himself, too. Here's the thread; we all do well to remember that it's difficult to rewrite your own history on the Internet.

Chrisbl:

The weather this afternoon in the area was pretty bad.


As an example this is Farnborough


EGLF 031520Z 36011KT 6000 2000SW BR VCSH BKN006 06/05 Q1018
EGLF 031450Z 34013KT 4000 BR FEW006 BKN016 07/06 Q1017


Odiham


EGVO 031550Z 36012KT 9999 OVC004 05/04 Q1019 YLO2
EGVO 031450Z 33015KT 9999 BKN004 OVC016 06/05 Q1017 YLO2
EGVO 031350Z 27016KT 9999 BKN008 OVC015 11/09 Q1014 GRN



Boscombe Down


EGDM 031650Z AUTO 01013KT 9999 OVC006/// 05/04 Q1022
EGDM 031550Z AUTO 35009KT 9999 BKN006/// BKN017/// 05/05 Q1020 RERA
EGDM 031450Z AUTO 35015G25KT 8000 -SHRA SCT003/// BKN016/// 06/05 Q1017

We must try to keep an open mind, however difficult, those metars look grim and will be the first thing the aaib refer to in their report. There could be more than one contributory factor, he could have had the situation under control preparing for a precautionary at popham and then had engine problems from say carb icing. Those weather conditions look ideal for carb icing, particularly if you have been skipping along just under cloud level for a few miles. The one and only time I have experienced carb icing in a 912S that is rarely prone to carb icing was doing exactly that. Unfortunately of course, the evidence, if any, will have evaporated long ago.

What's interesting about those is the deterioration - very noticeable with BDN. I could see how you might with a bit of pressonitis be suckered into flying at 1450 yet it was nasty at 1550 and stinking by 1650.

sadly beggars belief why to fly last saturday when the weather down here was one of the nastiest days for a while -
i am not far from compton abbas and BOH and the weather had been rough since the afternoon before driving back through hampshire to dorset

very sad to learn of the casualties and the poor lad orphaned

Gethomeitis.

It looks like this was the return leg to the previous day's outbound trip to Bembridge. The track from the 2nd jan from brize radar is still there on flightradar24

Hmm
Reported cloudbase around 4-800' or less, Popham at 550' and the high ground en route to Wellesbourne up to 7-800' or so.

Doesn't leave a lot of options.

Spannerintheworks
 

The way I remember that post is you came on here, making out to have good intentions but then you started to pontificate, people responded, you didn't like that and just because of people's replies you decided to complain to the CAA just because people (randoms on a forum, and not the pilots involved) didn't agree with you.

Here's your post:

"In view of the comments and criticisms I have received I consider the only way forward is to file Form FCS1520 for an Alleged Breach of Air Navigation Legislation against this pilot"

fa2fi and SpannerInTheWerks, would you chaps mind awfully getting yourselves a room and moving your private spat on this thread elsewhere, please?

Thank you

:rolleyes:

Yes please....

BEagle/Pilot DAR: my apologies. My intention was to keep the conversation pertinent to the topic before it went way off course like the Motorway Flying one did. I will now quit with it. I've made my point. Now I'll leave both of you to actually contribute something to the thread which neither of you have yet.

I have a nice pair of RAF Mk 16 coveralls in a lovely desert pink.

I am shopping for a stylish pair of leather gauntlets to match my stout leather walking boots.

I try to put £100 or £200 a month towards a flying helmet.

I am fully aware that I look a complete fool embarking a Cessna in my top gun finery.

But I am a fool who knows what happens if you're unlucky enough to need it and not have it.