I'm sure the OP is capable of controlling his urges to see what happens if full travel inputs are applied at Vne. Give the guy a little credit for not being an idiot with a death wish.

As for the 'envelope' the UK does not have an Experimental category. Permit to fly aircraft are not Experimental and their airworthiness is closely controlled by the LAA. Granted, the Turbi is a very old design, but it is well known to the LAA as are its limitations. I'm not suggesting LAA oversight is equivalent to certified aircraft standards, but its not the free for all that many other countries enjoy either.

I'm sure that the OP won't be exploring that envelope without knowing what the design limitations are and whether the LAA have changed them in light of information from the fifty odd years these planes have been flying. There's nothing wrong with exploring envelopes if you know where the boundaries are, so please stop acting like 'exploring the envelope' is a simile for aerobatics, because it is not.

Well, advice is appreciated and I shall be additionally cautious. Incidentally I was well aware incidentally that aerobatics aren't advisable/allowed.

For a Cessna I was advised that a second or two of zero G with the power off was fine for the engine. I did them at 4000 feet so that if the engine did cut it would hopefully have enough time to draw the fuel back.

I can genuinely say that I've never pushed the spamcans I've flown beyond published limits of g, bank, speed etc... and left a good margin to boot.

Turb time
 

AB, the best piece of advice was Rogcal's suggestion about doing some time in a 2 seat Jodel. A Chipmunk is nothing like as light in handling as a Turb, neither is a Cub. Of the three, the Jodel gets nearest.
I had mates who with zero tailwheel time and who had bought single seaters (Turbulents and Taylor Mono).
I took them in my 117 and reasoned that if they could get to a standard where they could fly the 117 from the right seat ( ie throttle in left hand, stick in right hand as in the single seater) and not need any intervention from me, then they would be ok to go off in their respective Turb/Taylor Mono's, after a suitable briefing.
In every case they had no problems at all...

Would just advise being careful with the engine. Depending on what the individual aircraft has been fitted with, the VW we had was a real ice-maker.

You learned to be manic with carb heat, even on the ground on a hot day. I'd be nervous of shutting off power without paying due care.

Oh, and if I remember correctly, we had a big notice on the panel reminding us that 'THIS IS NOT AN AEROBATIC AIRCRAFT', though she certainly felt like one

PS I'd agree with Them thar Hills. The closest 2 seater type I found with Turb handling is the Jodel

The most common placard on aircraft owned by Norman Jones, including Turbs., was,
ALL AIRCRAFT BITE FOOLS..............so true!
Tony

Lots of advice on the benefits of Condors and Jodels.

Is there anyone now offering instruction on these ?

Lots of clubs in France have jodels as trainers. Loudun and Poitiers for example, both close to home for me. You might have more difficult finding one in UK, though. Nice aircraft, especially with the 90 hp engine. 76 euros an hour at Loudun, solo rate, for the 112.

So do rattlesnakes, crocodiles, lions, tigers etc, is this relevant?

The Condor's a great twin-stick taildragger, but I think that they're all on Permits nowadays, so the only way you'll get any instruction on one is to buy a share in one of the various syndicates dotted around the country.

I'm in one such syndicate, at White Waltham, and we have three instructors in the syndicate - but that's a rather extreme way of getting yourself ready to fly your Turbulent!

Piper's suggestion of a flying holiday in France isn't a bad one, so long as you can find an instructor who speaks enough of a language that you are able to talk flying in.


Ours still has that placard in it.

I think the difference is that most people don't voluntarily go near lions or tigers.

G

The point I'm trying to make is that the OP asked for advice, to be told that aircraft bite fools is not necessary. These cliches get a little boring after a while.
Apart from that, no one has mentioned the Emeraude as a 610kg mtow twin stick (parallelogram), throttle lever on both sidewalls as a possible? Ground angle is 9deg. Any use? Similar problem though, being a permit aircraft.
Will it ever come to pass that permit aircraft could be rented as training a/c?

That's appreciated, though I have no real objection to being reminded once in a while.

It's an interesting observation that when I shortly fly an unfamiliar aircraft solo for the first time, prior experience on similar types is denied to me because of legislation presumably intended to improve safety...

I suppose there's also the safety of the instructor to take into consideration - perhaps it's unfair to ask an instructor to teach on an uncertified aircraft, yet if I owned a 2-seater I could legally be instructed on it - as I understand the situation.

If I were an instructor I think I'd rather teach people on an aircraft I owned than one I was less familiar with and that may not have been maintained to my standards. Whether or not I'd want to instruct on a permit aircraft belonging to a school is another matter again.

Yes, Type Approved microlights have been used for training since the late 80s, rentable for about a decade, and Type Approved Gyroplanes since a few years ago.

It's a discrimination against the "group A" fraternity.


Perhaps the solution is to get a tailwheel sign off in whatever's convenient, then a few hours in a tailwheel Thruster. The Turbulent sits somewhere between the two.

G

Ah well, you see in France clubs (we don't really have many commercial schools) are allowed to instruct on, and indeed build, home build aircraft. Egletons built their four seat Jodel. Most instructors speak some English but for a conversion you don't need that much common language. I converted to the Wilga and Yak 12 in Poland with an instructor who spoke only polish, which taught me how to make circuit calls in polish, and to order beer....

It is this in-equality that needs to be addressed. This precise situation cannot be resolved at all easily. How many two seat a/c, tailwheel, comparable to the Turbulent are there that are legally allowed to be used for training?
What is the safety argument?
I wonder if I am legal, I went from 152 to buying the Emeraude then did several hours in it with a pilot who owned one but was not an instructor, then an hour with an instructor who signed me off. I was not a member of any flying school or organisation at the time.

Little wheel at rear...
 

I was looking through threads in order to find out how to get the 'tail dragger' endorsement on a new PPL(A), upgrade from NPPL.... my first solo, forty years back, was in a Rollason Condor G-ATAU, no flaps, a very basic taildragger. Almost half my experience logged is on the Condor.
I am presently having some difference of opinion with a Cessna 152....
Just wondering why there isn't a tricycle rating, they seem a bit more difficult to me...!!

If it's any consolation DOF, if you earn your PPL in Canada, on a floatplane, and you want to fly wheels, you have to get a wheelplane endorsement - maybe in a 152! I've heard it's pretty challenging....

I had many a happy hour in G-ATAU. She was (and apparently still is) a great little aircraft.

Yes, it's tough getting used to such narrow, short, hard runways! At least you don't have to worry about boats on the runway or wondering which way the tide is flowing! :E

A couple of years ago in NZ, I added a couple more hours of Super Cub time to my logbook, but this time on wheels!

Here is a good video for you
 

No record of that, GtE.

Microlights account for a significant amount of LAA aircraft, and most LAA coaches have experience of instructing on a wide range of microlights.

http://www.lightaircraftassociation....icrolights.pdf

ifitaint...