pa28 fuel
 

I am converting to a pa28 and the fuel management seems highly dubious - look in the tank!!! How are you supposed to get mass + balance right, especially if you want to go 4 up ?!?

Use the tabs in the fuel tanks. Full fuel is 50 USG, 25 per side. Tabs are 34 USG, 17 per side.

Exact figures vary by aircraft and specific type, but the tabs are ROUGHLY the fuel level for flight 4-up. However if you do the calculations properly and want e.g. 38 USG, just fill to tabs and and 2 USG per side.

Most clubs/groups have refilling to tabs as their SOP for this reason. Very few ops require you to have less than tabs.

Would that be PA28 140,151,161,180,181 etc...? There are differences..I recall the 140 is 42gal imp full, 28 gal imp tabs.

You need a dipstick! Ask your instructor to show you how to make one.


MJ:ok:

Make sure wings level or readins are u/s

When you are familar with acrft you will soon learn to work on tme flown since last refuel ie: tabs or full. A pretty accurate fuel assesment.

The majority of PA 28 have tabs in the tanks. This gives a pretty clear indication of fuel load once you've read the POH. If you fly at a sensible altitude and lean the engine there's really no problem flying a PA 28 as a tourer. I've flown 'em all over Europe 2,3 or 4 up.

Looks like you are converting from C172 - how did you do it on that?? At least on the Pa28 you CAN look in the tanks AND you have tabs to give an indication, on the 172 you only have how long it has flown from full or guages (of course both also available on the Pa!), both IMHO less reliable!

the fuel system is not dubious at all.

does your PA28 have "TABS" or not?

have you read the POH?

have you asked your local flight instructor?

can you look into the empty fuel tank and see "X" stamped into the metal?

can you look at the fuel gauges and see the numbers and cross check the tanks?

You could start with completely empty tanks and ask the fueler to put 10 gallons in each tank.


But it is much better than climbing up on the wing, not being able to actually LOOK INTO THE TANK and then falling off the wing.

Use the stepladder at the pumps for a high wing?
Or have real fuel gauges, as in ....ahem....the Super Cub (sight glass)

Dip sticks ?
 

I'm thinking of selling my PA28 dipsticks.......... I have five or six of them all recovered from the fuel tanks during maintenance.

My guess is that my PA28 is typical and most maintenance company's are likely to have a few dipsticks that they have also recovered from the tanks.

Of course it all depends on the quality of the dipstick at the controls.

That's a result of p155-poor design....probably Piper's bean counters trying to save a few dollars and a half a kilo.
In the day, i had a licenced filling station. Tanks underground. Dipstick went in a tube which ended a few inches above the tank-base which dad a crash-pad directly below the tube. Impossible to lose the dipstick.
Delivery-tankers had oblong matt-black wooden dipsticks with calibrations embossed into the sides (basically, a long wooden batten.) the "handle" end ha an aluminium cross-piece mounted on it, making it like a very long sword...the cross-piece stopped the stick dropping through the dip-hole.
I see absolutely no reason why one could not use similar on an aircraft.
cross-piece rests across fill-neck, stick dangles in tank IT DOES NOT NEED TO TOUCH THE BOTTOM! -add fuel to empty tank until it wets dipstick...mark qty. add , say, 5 gallons, mark level on stick....repeat until full tank.

I've used dipsticks on some types, but for the many years I flew a PA28 I worked on "tabs" or "full". My W&B sheet had the numbers for "full" and "tabs" on that particular aeroplane. Very easy, it was.

We have a wooden dipstick marked in pencil in Imp galls for our Arrow:

Painstakingly made by slow filling of empty tanks eons ago by a group member long departed :

Far more reliable than the fuel gauges.....

And far too long to drop into the tank.

Goes everywhere with aeroplane when touring.

Compared to a C172 I fail to see how fuel management is a problem with any form of PA28.

Only ever used a dipstick once in 36 years, just to see if the person who made it, calibrated it accurately (they had) If your at an airfield that has fuel avaialable at the time of flight, just fill the thing upto tabs/full and go......forget the fuel guages and use a clock. Once you are happy with the fuel burn Leaned/rich then hey ho, who needs dipsticks and guages?

PA 28 has three fuel states.

Full
Tabs
Unknown

Don't take any chances with dipsticks, none of them are made by Piper and you're just turning one unknown into another unknown.

When I have wanted to fly with less fuel than tabs, I have filled it to Tabs and had the engineer remove a measured amount into approved storage.

Isn't that a bit OTT?

No, considering the circumstances of the flight, I don't think so. I needed to reduce weight as much as possible and have a known fuel state.

Thanks everyone.

I agree a dipstick is probably of no use.

Full or tabs then!

I still think it's a bit rubbish that you can't easily measure what's in the tank. That is assuming the dipsticks on the Cessnas are accurate....!

Cessna dipsticks are no better than Piper ones and certainly not all Cessnas have one so you are actually better off in a Piper in that respect.