Gliding
 

This may sound a bit anti-social but....I quite like the idea of gliding (I've only tried it once, but it seemed like fun), however I'm not sure I really feel like getting heavily involved in a club, with all the associated 'tasks' etc. I just sort of want to pay, fly and go home as you would when flying GA.


Is there anywhere that operates like this (I couldn't find anywhere), or is the only way to get involved in gliding to be sociable and get involved in a club?


Close to south London would be ideal, but obviously that may not be realistic!


Also is there a gliding forum anyone could recommend, where I could ask newbie questions (sorry google has let me down today)?

Buy a motorglider. You can launch, fly and glide without talking to anyone else (only ATC). A bit less optimal glide ratio, but with marginal thermals you can leave the engine on.

Unfortunately to truely glide you need a team of people to help you do it. Clubs are generally not run for profit, so they rely on members helping out with the building maintenance, providing food etc, it's just the way the gliding community works.

I don't think you'll be able to find what you're looking for without annoying a lot of people, who unless you pay them a lot, will soon get annoyed and stop helping you to get airborne.

I'm not trying to upset anyone, if what I'm not looking for doesn't exist, so be it. I was merely trying to find out if there was anywhere that operated like this, if not then I'll have to find an alternative or get involved in a club.

It exists here in the US.
Bryan

Smaller clubs tend to rely solely on volunteer support, ie club members. Larger clubs will often have a core of paid staff & enough student pilots to run the launchpoint. The majority of qualified pilots at large clubs will turn up on a soaring day, put their glider in the launch queue, fly as much as they like & after landing, put their glider away & go home or sit around in the bar.

Of course, to get to the qualified pilot stage you may have to spend some time as part of the student pilot group helping at the launchpoint. Again, some of the larger clubs will do 1:1 instruction where you get your own instructor for a half or full day.

To be honest for learning I'd actually be pretty happy to join in with the whole club ethos, I get how that would be beneficial to both me and the club. I'm more thinking about a year or so in, when I just want to fly for a few hours then leave, I can imagine having to do various jobs around the club and spending all day there would end up putting me off sticking with it (not to say that would always be a bad thing, but I like the idea of being able to book a slot, turn up and go)!

Also in NZ. I did a five-day Mountain Soaring Course in Omarama.

Attend the pilot's meeting, attend a course lecture, walk out to my glider, which was already on the line, fly for several hours, land, leave the glider with the crew and walk back for a beer.

I did 17 hours in five days with my "own" Duo Discus and instructor. Flew about 1500 km and learnt a lot. However, it's not cheap - about $200 per hour.

Most of my gliding though, has been in a club environment and I recommend that for long-term learning and just plain socializing.

vj,

You might consider going on an intensive course to get started, but ultimately, join a club near you that has the "right" atmosphere.

Yeah there are a few places near London that do intensive courses, so I am pretty tempted with that approach short term, I just don't want to start and get frustrated with spending too much time on club activities later down the line if that makes sense (I don't mean the socialising as such, more the work stuff)!!!

Great way of flying, steer clear of club politics and those who engage in them for pleasure.

vj, there are 3 large clubs near London that will provide courses which would suit your requirements. Lasham, Booker (at Wycombe Air Park) or the London Gliding Club at Dunstable.

Book on a course, and after that decide how involved you want to get. But if you can afford to live in London, you can afford to fly at these 3 big clubs, which have professional staff.

I started flying in 1983, at Booker. Went solo in 3 months, got Silver Certificate the following summer, and did the PPL at Wycombe Air Centre that winter, only needed 18 hours of power as the Silver C fills a lot of the requirements.

The British Gliding Association site is worth looking at. The Glider Pilot forum is not very helpful, not as user friendly as PPRuNe, so hard to follow, and a bit inbred. Ask your questions on this forum and we'll do our best to help.

My brief spell in the world of gliding was coloured by being used as 'launch fodder' for the club pilots. I think it was three complete dawn to dusk 2-day weekends at the club before I even got airborne! After that, the ratio of retrieve / cable tractor driving / general dogsbody to flying training convinced me slavery had not been abolished.

Even if you got a high place on the 'flying draw' for studes at 7am (having left home at silly-o'clock or kipped in the bunkhouse overnight), if it turned out to be a good day the instructors went soaring!

I stuck it for a while in the hills, realised it was me being the fool here, then left and got a PPL in 6 months down on the plain at Barton.

Never looked back!

I'm told it's not like that now. But leopards, spots, etc.....:cool:

Then again you might meet a fellow PPLer on the apron who turns out to be a gliding instructor and invites you to a trial flight, which shortens the waiting time considerably :). And even though the ratio of groundwork & socializing/actual flying time compared to solo propelled flying is an important barrier from flying gliders for me, too, I readily admit that from a "pure flying feeling" standpoint, gliding is indeed a great way of being airborne.

IFMU, yes, but if there were no paid duties/roles even in non-profit clubs, in true American fashion, not much would get done/people airborne. Yes, there are few 'volunteer/unpaid instructors/tuggies/duty pilots associations' in US, but not the same.

I love power flying in the US and have done some gliding, but I like UK club scene more in comparison.
The amount of 'ground crewing' really depends on the amount of flights, whether training or check flights, solo pilots launching, aerotows vs winches, amount of trial lessons that morning/day.

The owner pilots assemble/preflight their glider themselves, can tow out the glider with car to launch point, need quick hook up and running wing and they're gone. So it's more ground chores for winch ops, cable break practice flights (landing ahead means buggy/car towing back), trial flights.

VJ, you basically aren't going to have issues getting solo, from your further posts. I don't think you can 'book good soaring conditions time slot' unless it's one of the mentioned clubs and it's summer season/good forecast.

If you're cash rich time poor, generally don't bother with pure gliding in small/smaller 'volunteer' club. There's a lot of delays and setbacks/disappointments and high attrition rate of trainees/early solo pilots as it is. Gliding's great, by all means, just not for everyone or nor for too long. The least stressful kind of flying besides other pure soaring.

MartinCh,
I prefer clubs to commercial operations. The two clubs I have been a part of, Nutmeg Soaring and Harris Hill Soaring Corporation operated primarily on unpaid labor, with the exception of Harris Hill on the weekdays in summer. Things got done! But we do have purely commercial operations here and that does work better for some.
Bryan
Nutmeg Soaring
Harris Hill

SSD,
'Kipping in the bunkhouse,' 'Down on the plain at Barton'! Sounds like your story involves my gliding club. If it is, yes, things have changed - a lot. Although we still do quite a bit of running around for others, but then they run around for me as well. As someone has said, if you are time-poor but cash-rich, gliding probably isn't for you. But if the ratios are reversed it may well be. I found that once I'd got to know people I actually enjoyed being on the field, chatting to mates and helping pilots get airborne. The other day I flew for two and a half hours and it cost me £7.50 - OK, plus overheads, but its a great way to aviate.

I've just passed 1000 hours gliding - OK not much for you sky gods, but it's been 27 years of fun.

2450 winch launches, 320 aerotows, 2 bungee launches, 3 auto tows.

About 30 field landings

50 different glider types, a lot of them vintage, some very strange. 30 of the types were single seaters with accompanying "DIY" type conversions going up the wire.

Flown in 6 different countries

Best height gain 21 000 feet, best cross country 320 km, both in vintage wooden gliders.

Haven't bent one yet (touch wood) although a pupil tried to fly me through a fence last weekend

Lots time spent maintaining gliders with good mates, lots of time spent getting other people into the air (instructing, winch driving, retrieve driving, wing tip holding.

Lots of beer drunk.

Minimum paperwork until EASA struck

Deeply frustrating at times, but overall gliding ain't so bad!

Snapper - Derby & Lancs. I certainly wasn't cash-rich/time poor back then. But the glacial rate of flying training progress actually made the cash outlay in travel. meals, and bar bills at least as expensive as lessons in the C150 at Barton - and in training for the PPL I got to see the wife occasionally as well, and to mow the lawn, and all that other 'normal life' stuff.

I did notice a lot of 'club politics' at the gliding club (which I kept out of), cleekeyness (SP?), and that many of the regulars were divorced. Most of those that were married had divorced wife one and married wife two, who was met through the club!

There were also quite a few instructors whose ego far exceeded their teaching ability. Shouting at studes was not uncommon, and knowing what I know now my introduction to stalling (in a Motor Falk over Grindleford station which I remember looking down on through the windscreen in our vertical stall recovery) was dangerous and totally unrealistic from a training viewpoint. He was just showboating, with no notion of teaching how to fly an aeroplane.

Since there seams to be a bit of gliding club bashing going on may i redress the balance a bit. I started gliding in 1978 at a very small club (40 something members) and yes there was a core of people in charge. However everybody chipped in helped get the gliders launched, ran the bar and flew as much as finances would allow. After a couple of years i decided to take my PPL. What a difference. Turned up, briefed, flew, debriefed, went home. I dont think I spoke to anyone apart from the instructor for nearly a year. No camaradery. No social aspects at all.
After I had my ppl I kept flying until It was a chore to fly for the £100 cuppa just to keep current. Gave up flying in disgust. ( I was now broke having spent all my savings on the PPL)

Fast forward to 1996 when due to redundancy I found both the time and the money to go flying again. I joined lasham Gliding Society (a very large club with 600+ flying members) Yes there was politics but with that many members you could avoid the cliques. Lots of cheap flying and availability of gliders (20+), good social atmosphere, expeditions, advanced training (aerobatics, competitions) and I was made welcome. Yes whilst under training you are expected to help launch others, but once qualified it is optional. They have a booking system so if you are flying club single seaters you can turn up, get the glider out of the hanger , fly and put it away again just like a power club, but it is frowned upon.
The flying is varied. In the right weather you can fly for 10 yrs visiting most of england.
For finacial reasons I have had to give up flying again but I am still a social member of the club

I should add that I know many flying schools are functional 'learn to fly then go home' places, especially these days where many flying schools seem to be an extension of the commercial flying world.

Lancashire Aero Club at Barton in the 70s, 80s, and into the 90s was a thriving hub of grass roots aviation. Not only basic flying training, but many home builders, PFA types, aircraft fettling going on, always someone to chat too, to fly with, and an excellent club house. We didn't realise how lucky we were to have all that, together with enthusiastic and highly experienced and capable instructors for tailwheel, aeros etc.

One could, and often did especially if the wx was unsuitable, spend a most enjoyable few hours there without even flying. To have a lovely Chipmunk in the hangar one could wheel out and take flying was a bonus!

A sociable atmosphere can and does (or at least did) exist in power flying as well.

Yes, there were politics and a few pushy unpleasant folk (don't all clubs have them to some extent?) but one could ignore that, as most of us did. It was our playground - aviator's heaven. I loved it. Very sad it ain't like that now.