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-   -   Expo 2014 Sywell (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/540592-expo-2014-sywell.html)

sharpend 28th May 2014 10:27

Expo 2014 Sywell
 
For those of you who are flying in to Sywell for the Expo Fri/Sat/Sun, you will have noticed that arrivals are 1 -2 every minute. This can be just as dangerous as flying in the Battle of Britain. Mortality then was not too good. So can I ask you to:

1. Stick to your slot time.
2. Keep you eyes wide open.
3. Look with your ears. You know what this means.
4. Do not land on the numbers, then taxy all the way up the runway at 5 knots.
5. Be aware of what is behind you and be considerate.
6. Follow the instructions given in the NOTAM.
7. Above all, have Situational Awareness.
8. If you have to go-around due to someone not doing the above, then follow the rules above, yet again.

If we all do the above, hopefully will not be any tears. Or Air Rage.

Enjoy. See you there?

BEagle 28th May 2014 10:40

....and do NOT pass your life history over the RT!

;)

See you, Blunty!

robin 28th May 2014 11:22

.. and please, if you have a slow performance aircraft, like the gyrocopter that got in front of us last year, don't cut in on a shortened circuit.

My pilot was so shaken up by the arrival from the Pitford hold that he was a nervous wreck on finals, made worse by the gyrocopter struggling to keep a decent speed on approach.

If I had been driving I would have gone round, but he was in overload.

this is my username 28th May 2014 12:50

.... and please don't post on forums afterwards about how your arrival was perfect but everyone else was too fast / slow / flew too large / small a circuit etc.

Always remember that you won't have seen the aircraft that you carved up on the way in!

Jan Olieslagers 28th May 2014 13:26

If those concerns are real, then I know where NOT to fly.

hegemon88 28th May 2014 14:18

I have a slot for Saturday but am having second thoughts now...

thing 28th May 2014 15:34

Been asked to go but luckily have an excuse not to. Five squillion a/c all trying to land at once ain't my idea of fun.

robin 28th May 2014 16:02


If those concerns are real, then I know where NOT to fly.
Its certainly worth going to and I'll be going again

I've happily been into many events where the skies are full in the circuit. My only problem with Sywell is that the instructions are massive and lots of people don't bother to read them.

I really don't like the Pitsford hold. It's worse than an OHJ and very difficult to spot traffic. The only radio call is on finals so you don't build up much of a picture of what's about.

Faster aircraft are mixing it with slower as they stream to the same finals position and only then do you know if the aircraft in front or alongside is positioning for the grass or the hard.

It's a real test for the Mk1 Eyeball!

Echo Romeo 28th May 2014 16:59


I have a slot for Saturday but am having second thoughts now...


Ah yes, this sounds reminiscent of the LAA rally, I suspect the joining
procedure is the same.

On the 3 occasions I've flown into the rally, 95% of those attending adhered to the joining procedure, its the bloody 5% who don't, you need to worry about, the mavericks who just do their own thing regardless!

And yes, I'd include myself in the former. Good luck :ok:

bingoboy 28th May 2014 17:06

I would ask is that folk who can approach v slowly maintain a reasonable speed until short finals and either land long if on hard or clear the runway as soon as safe if on grass.

sharpend 28th May 2014 17:19

After last year's problems, I spoke to ATC who stated that they would not condone any other RT call than finals. Of course this means that, especially in less than perfect viz, one has no idea where other aircraft are. Add to this the problem of pilots not following the same approach path from the hold, arriving at the wrong time or worse still, arriving without a slot, not having read the NOTAM (that happened) and/or flying variable speeds (the one ahead of me was flying at 50 knots, my VAT is 65 its) was a recipe for problems.

95 % of us are professional, but it only needs one crow to scatter the pigeons.

Keep you eyes open.

Mariner9 28th May 2014 17:57

Jeez, there are some doom merchants on this thread.

Yes, the skies are busy, and yes, some don't comply with the procedures.

Hasn't stopped me and thousands of other pilots flying in sucessfully each and every year though.

I'll be flying in on Saturday and Sunday, weather permitting.

sharpend 28th May 2014 18:39

Mariner 9, if you think fore-warned is not fore-armed then continue to fly with your head in the clouds :=

I well believe in the phrase 'There are no old, bold pilots'. Just a little advice from someone who is old, has 10,000 hrs + under his belt, who has survived being shot at by SAMs, crashed, went solo in 1959, has flown everything from Chippies to Fast Jets, (with a few 4-engined airliners thrown in for good measure), might have something to say and something that the 100 hr PPL pilot might consider.

If just one inexperienced pilot reads my initial comment, thinks a little, then avoids hitting another this weekend, then personally I have achieved what I set out to do.

Obviously you don't need my advice, but possibly some do. :)

hoodie 28th May 2014 18:52


Originally Posted by sharpend (Post 8497080)
...arriving at the wrong time or worse still, arriving without a slot...

Times and slots are recommended and advisory, but - sensibly - not rigidly enforced. Of course it's a good idea to be as close to your planned slot time as you can - since arrivals will be spread out if everyone achieves it, but it's hardly a hanging offence if you don't.

From the Sywell email confirming your slot:


The slot system is intended to promote a smooth distribution of
traffic throughout the day; if you miss your slot e.g. due to a
weather delay, do not worry - [you] will not be turned away.
Do your best, but don't give up and stay away if e.g. you have to move more aircraft out of the way in the hangar than you'd anticipated in order to get your own aircraft out.

Also, when you do read and digest the procedure you'll see it's actually very straightforward. The length of the doc is mostly due to the need to provide background context, and the need to cater for different wind directions to 2 runways in simultaneous use.

There's too much scaremongering in this thread, IMO.

It would be worse, not better, if everybody was calling at multiple points around the hold and the approach.

Oshkosh manages many times more aircraft every year with a similar technique - why can't we? (A: We can).

Have fun, stay safe, follow the procedure accurately, see you there.

patowalker 28th May 2014 18:57

I suspect that flying into the Popham microlight fair provides more useful experience for a safe arrival at Sywell than flying fast jets, airliners and attracting missiles.

Mariner9 28th May 2014 18:59


then continue to fly with your head in the clouds
I have an IR so may as well exercise the privileges lol :ok:

As for Aeroexpo - No need to be a sky god to fly in safely, read and comply with the procedures, and keep a good lookout is all that's needed IMHO

hoodie 28th May 2014 19:18

Further to above: A very switched-on lady elsewhere once summarised the procedure (for the LAA Rally, but much the same here) as:


Originally Posted by leiafee. DO NOT USE FOR PLANNING PURPOSES!
1. Fly to Pitsford reservoir.
2. Fly round it in a square until you see a sensible gap between you and the aircraft heading off in front of you.
3. Join on a sort of massively extended left base if it's 03 or a wide-ish right downwind if it's 21.
4. Keep your gob shut unless you're on final or on fire.
5. Park where the blokes in orange tell you to.

Yes, there's more to it than that, but not much and that's the essence. The instructions aren't "massive" if you digest them.

Jan Olieslagers 28th May 2014 19:32


Fly round it in a square
Hm. Perhaps my mind is too straightforward for some certain environments, but could someone kindly explain how to fly ROUND in a SQUARE? This is one subject my poor little pilot's syllabus did not cover.

Johnm 28th May 2014 19:35


Quote:
Fly round it in a square
Hm. Perhaps my mind is too straightforward for some certain environments, but could someone kindly explain how to fly ROUND in a SQUARE? This is one subject my poor little pilot's syllabus did not cover.
It's not a bad way to describe flying a holding pattern to a bunch of pilots with zero IFR knowledge or experience.

DaveW 28th May 2014 20:05

Jan, yes - too literal. :} Try "fly around it in a square".

Of course, my Flemish (French? Dutch?) would have been more than up to the task if the situation was reversed... ;)


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