Stall & Engine failure scenario and recovery
 

Just completed skill-test with an instructor for the renewal of my licence and of course we did perform stalls and engine failure recovery procedures.

I'm however wondering if it is allowed to perform these scenarios without an instructor sitting in the right seat.

Even though I've committed the stall and engine failure recovery procedures into memory, I'm of the opinion that it must be practiced without an instructor in the right seat to make the recovery more secure and effective.

Currently, I'm not really trying the procedures when flying alone but I'm looking into practicing them the next time I go flying.

So, the question is, are there any regulations out there that restrict that?:confused:

WP

There is nothing apart from all the other rules of the air.

Saying that though in Germany it might not be the done thing even if it is legal.

The best thing to do is to speak with your instructor and ask if you can practice some stall recoveries on your own!
It happened in my training days some time back but will vary from person to person!
Some will be happy and relish the thought others will tremble in their shoes at the thought!
Your instructor knows you and your flying and will advise!
Unless things have changed the answer is yes you can practice some stall recoveries!

Pace

They are PPL license holder its got nothing to do with any instructor

I have just finished my PPL (paperwork just to do now) and both my instructor and examiner have strongly advised me to practice, inter alia, stall recovery, PFLs, EFATO drills and glide approaches which I certainly will be doing once the CAA give me a licence.

Why wouldn't one practice such things?

Sorry MJ I rush read it on a train and posted with my I phone!
If you are a PPL of course you can do what the heck you wanna do !
As a student with your instructors approval Yes
Sadly even PPLs are scared to practice stall recoveries on their own
Pace

It would be very remiss of you indeed NOT to practice these things! How the heck are you going to respond appropriately if it happens for real if it's months or maybe years since you practiced it?

Whatever happened to 'airmanship'?

During my PPL course I was sent off to do an hour's solo stalling practice.

By engine failure recovery procedures, do you mean actually switching it off and restarting it at altitude? I wouldn't want to switch off a perfectly serviceable engine, however I do occasionally recite my immediate action points and reach for the switches to simulate carrying out those actions.

If you mean practising landing without using the engine power, I regularly approach airfields at 2000 feet and ask for permission to do what the germans call a "ziellandeuebung" (practice forced landing) and if they don't have much traffic in the circuit, they allow it so with respect legality, it's allowed, indeed at our club, it's highly recommended to practice it whenever we can.

Having said that, although in my case I just close the throttle and leave the engine on idle simulating an engine failure, I have seen an ultralight come in with it's engine completely off, then restart on the runway so yes, it's something practiced, although I'll not kill my engine, I'm not that foolish because if someone just rolled out onto the runway as I come onto a short final, I'd like to know I can go around even when practicing a PFL.

Concerning stall recovery techniques, I'll do them now and then but only if I'm alone or the other people in the plane are warned about what to expect - hearing the stall warning horn go off and the plane dropping can be unnerving for the uninitiated. In my mind, not practicing might lead to you taking the wrong action at the wrong time so practice makes perfect.....

Sheesh, of course you should practice! As for landing engine stopped, we do it in gliders and motor gliders all the time, but a light aircraft is not so well equipped for that (airbrakes better than flaps)
I used to get sent off for solo stalls, spins and pfls long before I finished my ppl.

Repeating other people's opinions really.

If you learned to do it, were tested on it, you're allowed to do it.

I tend to think that if I've not practiced at least one practice emergency (engine failure most usually) and at-least one stall and recovery monthly, I'm not current.

G

G

That is how it should be :ok: But many do not its on with the autopilot and away they go with many not practising stalls at all or as I said before some are not comfortable on their own because they worry about getting it wrong and getting into a situation they cannot handle i.e. a spin.

PFLs are again another important item that are rarely practised but should be.

Pace

Stall & Engine failure scenario and recovery
 

I often practice stall recovery especially when my cocky (hard as nails) friends are sitting next to me ;)
Not so hard after all

It is encouraging to hear that most of you are practicing these emergency procedures to ensure a positive outcome in case of emergency circumstances. I certainly recognize the value of performing emergency procedures to minimize my risk profile and I've resolved to be more active in engaging these procedures in my next flights.:ok:

WP

Can (should?) a PPL practice entering and recovering from spins? or is the territory of areos training?

Except in a few special circumstances before the airplane stalls it has to pass through slow flight first. Personally I think there is more value in practicing maneuvering the aircraft in slow flight then there is to just going out and doing stalls.

For new PPL's I suggest that they start with a power on stall and recovery and then work at a concentrated 10 minutes worth of slow flight. And I mean true slow flight, that is flying with the stall warn horn first sounding intermittently and then even slower with the horn sounding continuously. This should involve turns and descents in slow flight. (Note 1: the initial stall practice is to make sure you have reviewed the stall recovery so that if you c*ck up the slow flight and actually stall you will make an uneventful recovery and Note 2: make sure you monitor the engine temps to avoid overheating)

I see many students get scared when they see 60 kts IAS in a C 172 or Pa 28. This speed is still way above stall speed and there is lots of margin left. The best way to not get into an inadvertent stall is to recognize the fact the airplane is getting slow just by how it feels and how it is performing. Being comfortable flying it slowly also makes operating into and out of short fields safer.

As for engine failures, well as I have pontificated on before 80 % of all engine failures are the direct result of the actions or inactions of the pilot. Even if the engine fails power can often be restored if a "cause check" is promptly performed.

As a fairly young instructor the "AH HA" moment for me involved a forced landing of a C 172 by a new PPL in very inhospitable terrain. The pilot did a great job of getting on the ground without killing anybody after the engine suddenly stopped, but when the wreckage was retrieved there was 10 gals of fuel in the left tank zero gals in the right tank and the fuel selector was selected to the right tank.

If his instructor had put the same effort into teaching this pilot the importance of a quick and effective cause check as he did into flying the forced approach, he would have been able to restore power and fly home......

I would support what BPF says!
One observation adding to what BPF says is practising flying accurately at speeds both level and climbing and descending.
Many pilots I have flown with seem unable to be accurate on speed, dropping flap above the flap speeds or above the gear speeds and accelerating in descent or loosing speed in the climb.
If pilots are precise on flying speeds then the stall situation will not happen but so many are not!

Pace

Spins aren't in the PPL syllabus, and shouldn't be flown without a parachute and a means of abandonment - such as jettisonable doors.

But if a PPL is flying aeros, and thus should be wearing a parachute routinely in a suitably configured areoplane, and also likely to end up in a spin from time to time - yes, they should.

G

Interesting... at the end of my second lesson on stall recovery my instructor demonstrated two spins. Is this reckless without the precautions mentioned above? It seemed almost routine at the time.

Surely this is the very thing we are teaching students to avoid! Flying aircraft slowly is potentially dangerous because it can lead to the stall and the spin and is taught as one of the symptoms of the approaching stall; thre point at which the pilot should initiate recovery action. Teaching people to fly around at these speeds means they are less likely to recover from a worsening situation because they "know it is OK" they have done it regularly! It is much better to be comfortable with stalling at a safe height; be familiar with the recovery action, then stay away from the conditions that might put you there in a lesss desirebale position i.e. a height where recovery may be compromised.
Provided you know what you are doing, have an appropriately certified aircraft and have had it demonstrated and practiced before, then there is nothing to prohibit it. The choice of a prachute is always debateable but remains optional.