Do all Military Aircraft have Radar?
 

Had a very pleasant trip from Wellesbourne to Kemble and back today with my daughter.

On the way home, we were climbing through 4000ft on a northerly heading when my daughter almost leapt off her seat in excitement - she had spotted an RAF Herc come from underneath us at about 2000ft.

They flew parallel for a while at not much greater speed than ourselves i must add, only then to turn away to the right on what i presume Finals for Brize Norton.

An amazing sight and what makes me love this hobby soo much. You just never know what your going to see.

I am just wondering if anybody is in the know, whether such military aircraft have air - air radar of sorts and how far away he would have picked us up? I was taken a little bit by suprise with this today because they came underneath and from behind. I also often see Chinooks and the odd Lynx flying VMC in the uncontrolled airspace above our house. Any info will be read with interest :ok:

Many military aircraft have a weather radar, but not one that will pick up another aircraft.

So they are just flying visually? I do find that very suprising.

That's why they have windows too.

Do all Military Aircraft have Radar?
 

I was recently talking to a Typhoon pilot from Leuchars who confirmed that neither the Typhoon nor the Tornado have TCAS. I would imagine that the Hercules does have it but couldn't say for certain.

the Herc would only have a weather radar certainly not air to air radar. They probably will have TCAS. It is possible to pick up other aircraft on a weather radar, I have done so a couple of times, the first being over the ocean while using the weather radar to look for whales, it was turned down to a ten mile range with high gain. It gave quite a surprise when I looked out expecting to see a couple of hundred pilot whales to spot a herc instead!

I am not sure why it should be surprising for military aircraft to fly visually and I'm not sure what good a radar would be when I'm wazzing down a valley at low level.

Talkdownman:ok:

Tactical flying, circuit work .....all mark1eyeball. This is a copy of the standard C130J fit ;


The C-130J is crewed by two pilots and a loadmaster. The new glass cockpit features four L-3 display systems multifunction liquid crystal displays for flight control and navigation systems.
Each pilot has a Flight Dynamics head-up display (HUD). The dual mission computers, supplied by BAE Systems IEWS, operate and monitor the aircraft systems and advise the crew of status.
The cockpit is fitted with the Northrop Grumman low-power colour radar display. The map display shows digitally stored map image data.
The C-130J is equipped with a Honeywell dual embedded global positioning system / inertial navigation system (GPS/INS), an enhanced traffic alerting and collision avoidance system (E-TCAS), a ground collision avoidance system, SKE2000 station keeping system, and an instrument landing system (ILS).
In July 2008, Lockheed Martin announced the following would be included in the baseline configuration of new C-130Js: Elbit Systems global digital map unit and the TacView portable mission display and InegrFlight commercial GPS landing system sensor unit, supplied by CMC of Canada.

Mil ac work generally the same way that you do, eyeballs out the cockpit. Been a while since I was in the RAF but fighter radar has a cut off point for slow moving traffic.

A famous case in point was when the F15 was first deployed to Germany. They use to track targets at low level wondering where the hell they were all coming from until they realised they were tracking cars on the autobahn (no speed limit).

That's why they have windows too.
and
I am not sure why it should be surprising for military aircraft to fly visually and I'm not sure what good a radar would be when I'm wazzing down a valley at low level.

All this stuff -
an enhanced traffic alerting and collision avoidance system (E-TCAS), a ground collision avoidance system, SKE2000 station keeping system, and an instrument landing system (ILS).
Are the windows an optional upgrade then?

Funny how even the most innocent bit of interest soon turns into a sarky belittling posting from the alledged experts on here.

I'll revert to carrying on with my life . . .

I think the new hawks have tcas as well.

Don't go in a huff mate.

Military in someways are years behind in the safety techno kit which the civi's have.

It takes years and years to get Military approval for it to be installed, then there is finding the funds. A Honeywell TCAS processor is something like $18k and no doud't its double for the mil version. If its not in the intial spec in the development its a major expensive mod to fit for each type.

As for airborne radars that can pick up aircraft. Its pretty special kit which uses different frequency's to wx radar. If you do a search for blue circle radar which was in the tornado F3 you can get a bit of history.

An AWACS will be able to pick you up and some other special assets but your normal trunkies, training aircraft, helicopters etc won't have it. Even the fighter defence on training flights aircraft may not have it working as the working machines will be on emergency standby or in operations.

I have never been in the RAF but have done some engineering type stuff to get boxes tested for fitting (there are G tests and stuff like that) but have mates that are in. I believe the Tutors have something in the works for a light aircraft TCAS type installation but they are slightly different as they are Civi aircraft and under different rules. This was after the two cadets got killed in a midair.

So the long and short is that most look out the window ;)

<<So they are just flying visually? I do find that very suprising.>>

If he was landing at a major airfield he was possibly under radar control. I hope you were talking to Brize, in which case ATC would have ensured safety.

More than likely not HD.

Brize is one of the units who are "difficult" when taking a basic service off them in uncontrolled airspace in GA. To be honest they are the same if you flying something bigger as well.

There instrument procedures extend outside controlled airspace and as a civi we have no way of finding out because the RAF charge for access to their AIP. So you get bun fights with the Controllers trying to keep GA away from the holds which are in class G.

The service pilot who replied to the question "what type of service do you require"

"The usual piss poor one"

Wasn't joking

Some military aircraft have terrain following radar that allows accurate and fast low level flying but the C130 doesn't have this.

I actually sat in on a low level sortie in the Herc while in the UAS a few years ago and the low level navigation is predominantly done with a large scale ground chart if I remember rightly.

Tornado GR4 has it and is brother had the blue circle radar.

I think that this is a big part of the Class G problem. Many IAPs are not protected from itinerant IFR traffic and it becomes quite unwieldy to provide the draconian 'don't anyone come near me, not even VFR' Deconfliction Service. But why the VFRs get pushed about I do not understand, traffic info should suffice...maybe TCAS RAs are the cause of that...

I fly with TCAS in the works machine.

I fly in class G for the majority of my working day.

This has been the same for the previous 8 years. Including under RAS etc.

I have never had a TCAS RA near an airport. I have had them on the NEW-ABZ direct route against Mil doing a 6000ft/min climb but never with a GA.

But then again in VMC in class G I fly visually in IMC I fly on instruments. Its this instrument flying in visual conditions which causes half the problems.

So I think there is a lot of miss information out there about what will and won't trigger a RA. You will get traffic traffic if it doesn't have mode C on. But an actual RA from a S&L GA showing Mode C 1500ft below not a chance in hell unless they suddenly lift the nose and get over 500ft climb rate.

Perhaps it's just over-zealous jobsworths then...

Dont go off in a huff mate

I.m not really in a huff, just annoys me how you ask an innocent question and you gets a reply from the sarky jokers on here.

Partly why i even asked is because last year when i was still training for my PPL, we were up around 5000ft practicing stall recovery when we saw a couple of Tornadoes skim the surface beneath us. My instructor said to me back then that they probably saw us long before we saw them.

I hope you were talking to Brize

No i wasnt talking to Brize, much in the same way i dont talk to Birmingham when arriving/departing Wellesbourne. We were about 10miles due north from Kemble and outside Brize Lars.

In the past though i have found Brize very helpful. Indeed we had a club visit there last November. Myself and 5 other club aircraft dropped in for a tour of the ATC and lunch in the Officers Mess. Am not usualy into all that but it was a very pleasant day out and was quite interesting to meet the ATC guys and girls.

The snitches in the aircraft and fear of being dragged into the office if you do an unstable approach linked in as well with low houred magenta line borg cadet pilots is why a lot of CAT operators in class G tend to always do the instrument approaches.

Flying a visual actually requires a bit of piloting skill, flying the procedure takes selecting the approach and pressing execute twice. Followed by taking the AP out at 200ft. With both heads inside monitoring the automatics.