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-   -   Having more than one instructor for PPL (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/517744-having-more-than-one-instructor-ppl.html)

foxmoth 26th Jun 2013 05:04


fly at 1500ft not 1570ft
Glad about that, because I will be at 1570' avoiding you and the numerous other people AT 1500':}

phiggsbroadband 27th Jun 2013 10:42

Adverse Yaw...
 
Hi, having had several instructors for both power aircraft and gliders, they all said that you should use some pro-rudder whilst in the turn, to prevent 'Adverse Yaw'.

However I was having a test flight in a large wing-span glider with an instructor, and we were flying in turbulent air, which was forcing each wing up in turn... I was correcting as best I could with the stick, but happened to mention that the Adverse Yaw was noticeable in this glider.
My Instructor said that I was not using enough (or any) rudder with the stick, and I explained that I was not turning but trying to maintain a S+L course.

So what he then said made some real sense.. He said that you need to apply the rudder as you move the stick, as it corrects for the difference in drag of the ailerons... Nothing to do with actually being in a turn, as the other 6 or 7 instructors had mentioned.

It's was just a slightly different way of looking at things, but much better to understand.

Heston 27th Jun 2013 12:25


He said that you need to apply the rudder as you move the stick, as it corrects for the difference in drag of the ailerons... Nothing to do with actually being in a turn, as the other 6 or 7 instructors had mentioned
Yes. And the difference in drag is what causes the adverse yaw.

Adverse yaw will occur if the rudder/aileron inputs are not balanced while rolling into or rolling out of the turn ie while the ailerons are deflected to roll the aircraft. It doesn't happen while the turn is being maintained at constant bank angle. So you are right - its not to do with being in the turn.
(I'm ignoring more subtle effects like the need to hold-off or hold-on bank in the turn in some circs, when you would still need that little bit of balancing rudder).
In normal flying you should never move the ailerons without moving the rudder and vice versa. Its particularly important to get this right when flying in turbulence because if you dont get it right the nose of the aircraft wanders all over the place which increases your passengers' discomfort!

In gliders you'll find that a tiny bit of pro-turn rudder is needed while maintaining the turn to keep the piece of string in the middle, but this isn't the same as adverse yaw, its simply to keep the glider aligned with the changing direction of the airflow as the aircraft turns - powered aircraft need this too strictly speaking but you really only see the need for it in gliders where aerodynamic efficiency is so important.

Grob Queen 28th Jun 2013 11:22

I have generally stuck with one FI throughout my 97 hours of training, and it is general club procedure in my club to stay with one FI through the course. This is great for continuity and you get to know each others ways and in my case become good friends too.

I have also flown with our CFI and two other FIs when my chap wasn't available. They each have their own ways, but all teach the same (although the CFI teaches MDR for Nav whereas my FI, although he has taught MDR to his military students, has taught me the Whizz wheel way as for those of us who are mathematically challenged, its much easier!!)

So I think its whatever suits you best or whatever yout FTO advise. But personally, I would stick with the same FI as much as possible.

thing 28th Jun 2013 19:20


In gliders you'll find that a tiny bit of pro-turn rudder is needed while maintaining the turn
I've always found the opposite actually (not arguing the point by the way!). Especially in something like a K8 in a steep turn I've always found a smidgen of top rudder and opposite aileron is needed to keep the string where it should be otherwise it just slips away. Might be something to do with the fact I'm built like a tank though and the cg is always way forward. Then again it might not.

Regarding instructors, I had three who were all excellent and all old timers relatively speaking. All ex mob flying instructors and sort of semi retired apart from one who flies for BA occasionally. Any good club will keep detailed records of each instructional flight and all the next instructor has to do is read up on what happend last time and which if any points need reinforcing.


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