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-   -   Looking for new logbook (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/503097-looking-new-logbook.html)

taxistaxing 2nd Jan 2013 19:38

It's a piece of your property so you can feel free to tippex at will, or write whatever you want into it! It isn't really a "legal document" in the way a contract might be. If you submit it as evidence of flying experience for the purposes of license issue, then of course it must accurately record your flying experience to date. Beyond that the aesthetics don't really matter, which I suppose explains the wide range of styles available on the market.

Odai 3rd Jan 2013 14:49

But then what guarantee is there that a pilot will not just simply get a page of entries signed off, then edit at will to make the hours accrued bigger? I would have thought that if the CAA, or any authority, received a logbook full of correction fluid it would have raised suspicions. :p

AdamFrisch 3rd Jan 2013 15:32

I've always derived great satisfaction from filling in an old school printed logbook right after the shutdown. It's like a little ritual I have. But I've just bought LogBook Pro and will transfer all my logbook entries (horrendous task) into it so I have an electronic backup, should the printed one ever go missing or get destroyed. The good thing about an electronic one is that it keeps track of everything - medicals, times, expirations etc.

taxistaxing 3rd Jan 2013 15:36


But then what guarantee is there that a pilot will not just simply get a page of entries signed off, then edit at will to make the hours accrued bigger? I would have thought that if the CAA, or any authority, received a logbook full of correction fluid it would have raised suspicions. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/tongue.gif
I don't think there are any guarantees. The system relies on the participants being honest! There's a specific offence under the ANO which (I think) prohibits making misleading statements about hours to obtain qualifications, but this must be difficult to police.

There are ways the CAA could check your entries, e.g. calling the airports you say you've visited and asking to see ATC records, or cross checking your log against the tech logs of the aircraft you've flown. Very difficult if it's your own aircraft or if you fly to unlicensed fields where there are no ATC records.

Not sure how often this happens in practise, but I've read stories of pilots with "parker pen" flying hours at all levels up to and including airlines! e.g.

Pilot suspended over logbook 'fake' | UK news | The Guardian

abgd 3rd Jan 2013 16:15

It wouldn't surprise me if they phoned up airports to verify t/o and landing times once in a while - it would be relatively easy to do and you might hope to catch any substantial percentage of parker hours with only a few calls.

Early on I messed up the way I'd recorded all my times and had to copy out about 40 hours of flying into a new logbook. It was surprisingly difficult to do without making a further mess. The flying school kept a free stock of identical biros so even legitimate hours logged probably looked suspicious!

taxistaxing 3rd Jan 2013 16:27


It wouldn't surprise me if they phoned up airports to verify t/o and landing times once in a while
Yep, this would at least identify flights that never took place. Even here though your takeoff and landing times may be legitimately different from your logged time. Particularly at busy fields where you may have taxied away from your start position, and been held for 20 mins before taking off. There is a lot of scope of fudging your logged hours.

It has certainly come as a surprise to me (as someone who scrupulously records their time I might add!) to realise how few checks and balances there are in the system. :sad:

BAe 146-100 5th Jan 2013 14:18


But then what guarantee is there that a pilot will not just simply get a page of entries signed off, then edit at will to make the hours accrued bigger? I would have thought that if the CAA, or any authority, received a logbook full of correction fluid it would have raised suspicions.
Some people have and will continue to go down that route which is blatant forgery. However, if you have any kind of incident/accident which involves investigation no matter how big or small you can bet your bottom dollar that your hours will be investigated as I believe this is standard practice, if you have been found to have forged hours you will be in a whole lot of trouble to put it mildly and have great difficulty in obtaining licences again.

Odai 5th Jan 2013 15:55

Fair enough, but as taxistaxing implied, there does seem to be an awful lot of holes in a system that awards flying privileges based on reported experience...

RTN11 5th Jan 2013 16:16

Anyone found any decent electronic logbook software?

Specifically one that will download flights directly from your airlines server to save you the work?

I've been looking at this one, but it's a little pricey if it doesn't work.

mccPILOTLOG Logbook Software

having said that, I'm currently on my fourth logbook as it is, each at a cost of around £15.

Thecope 5th Jan 2013 18:40

For pilots logbook is free. Not bad if your low on money.

peregrineh 5th Jan 2013 18:48

log10 pro on iTunes is awesome. Check out its capabilities.

fwjc 5th Jan 2013 20:30

Digital log book
 
I have been using excel for the last 8 years as a digital back-up to my paper log book. It means that whatever bespoke stats I need to com up with, I can pull them out really easily. I also record interesting pax rides in it, but obviously I've set these to not count in the totals.

Bonus is that it's free. I keep a master copy at work and email regular updates to my private email address so no matter where I am, if I can get my email, I can get my log book and whatever detail I want from it.

mary meagher 5th Jan 2013 21:19

Ah Odai, back again I see, and still viewing with skepticism any advice tendered by these helpful posters.

To all of them, and you if you wish to take advice, PHOTOCOPY and keep separately every page of your logbook.
Don't hesitate to use more than one line to record details of flights, there is no requirement to be analy retentive, or tidy; and the more detail the more cherished will be your records. For example, recording weather conditions, instructors, challenges, landouts, crashes, etc etc. The more detail the better, and do NOT go back and copy everything over into a fancy professional book, that will definitely give an impression of doubtful veracity and posing.

Odai 5th Jan 2013 21:38


Ah Odai, back again I see, and still viewing with skepticism any advice tendered by these helpful posters.
What on Earth are you referring to? :confused:


The more detail the better, and do NOT go back and copy everything over into a fancy professional book, that will definitely give an impression of doubtful veracity and posing.
The issue here is that some of my entries will likely be illegible to someone who isn't familiar with some of the waypoints etc in my logbook. I made no effort to correct them at the time believing there wouldn't be any issue in copying all my entries more neatly around the time I finish my PPL. My school, including the CFI, have told me it should be fine to copy over. :)

mary meagher 5th Jan 2013 21:53

I was referring to your memorable thread entitled "Newbie looking to upgrade to Cirrus." Case rests.

Odai 6th Jan 2013 15:22

I've looked into mccpilotlog, and downloaded the PC and mobile software. It looks very impressive, and does pretty much everything I might need.

The cost isn't huge, as there is only a one time fee of 69 euros, and considering I'd never need to buy another paper logbook (at about £20 a pop) again it seems cost effective.

The options to export include either a PDF or a hardcopy printed in a choice of different standard formats. Any ideas if the CAA/EASA would accept this? It'd be a massive pain if I logged all my flying electronically and then had to go back and put it all into a paper book because the authorities won't accept the former.


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