Non EU citizen GA travel in Europe
 

I know the traditional airline "visa waiver" is not available on GA flights, so how does this work?

When a Brit flies to the USA, via GA, he does need to get a Visa.

I think that if a non EU citizen flies into the EU (by airline) and then travels via GA, he needs a Visa, potentially in a lot of places.

Does anybody know anything about this?

I've flown all over Europe with non-EU nationals and never had any trouble; as long as they had already entered the EU by a legitimate route. I've even flown in and out of the UK with a friend from Singapore; no problems. I flew with my Chinese girlfriend all the way from Rotterdam to Egypt and back, and the also Tunisia and back, stopping off in many different EU and non-EU countries; no problems at all (she had visas for Egypt and Tunisia of course).

Of course, this doesn't mean it's allowed :}

First of all, immigration is not a EU thing but rather Schengen or national law for UK/Ireland.

Once you are in Schengen, you can travel as you like within Schengen. As to UK/Schengen, you will have to follow the typical rules for non Schengen arrival. Note that the Schengen visa waiver program (US terminology) is not restricted to airline transport.

There might be some exceptions. Indian nationals can travel to the UK without visa (correct?) but not to Schengen countries.

European Visa Policy

If as PIC you bring someone none EU national from outside the UK into the UK who breaches immigration rules its I think £2000 a head fine to the PIC.

And each country is different with the rules. Just because your pax has a visa for the UK doesn't mean they are then legal for say France. But once they are into a schengin country they can pretty much go anywhere within the region because nobody else will check them.

That European visa policy site is mind-boggling...

Shengen visas I believe are just that - any shengen country to another - the original visa remains valid. IF you have a shengen visa. If not, you are down to the entry rules for that country depending on your nationality so its about checking each country individually. I am unaware of any differentiation between arriving GA or scheduled carrier anywhere other than the USA though.

>When a Brit flies to the USA, via GA, he does need to get a Visa.

Yes, and I believe there is a once only process/concession where they will issue a B visa if you have screwed up and arrive without one, albeit at vast cost. The only way to enter without a visa otherwise is if you have already entered on a visa waiver via a carrier, go out and come back in GA within the original validity of the waiver. Doubtless terms and conditions apply but it is on the border website that one can do that.

What if your brand new shiny Russian girlfriend comes over on an airline from Russia. Obviously you can fly her around the UK, but can you fly her GA all around Europe?

Somehow I don't think so, but I don't even know where one might start looking.

Russian citizens need visa for both the UK and Schengen. If she gets a UK visa, then she will not be able to travel outside the UK with that visa. If she also has a Schengen visa, then yes.

There really isn't any difference between taking the car and a GA airplane. That "visa waiver only on commercial flight" is a purely American thing.

Got a mail-order bride on the way Peter? :ok:

I think he should pick her up personally. After all, it's the 25th anniversary of Mathias Rust's Moscow trip!

You can't even drive her around Europe without an appropriate VISA (tourist or otherwise). Once she gets a Shengen VISA she can move freely around the Shengen area, for countries outside the Shengen area local rules apply which may be completely different going from one country to another.
The embassy of the country you plan on taking her to might be a good place to ask for authoritative info.

Ciao,

DG800

That's interesting; thanks chaps :ok:

No, I have a lovely GF (from Durban) already; no need for a Russian one. Most of those are after a UK passport, first and foremost :) Anyway, the bastards invaded my country in 1947 and again in 1968 :)

Shengen VISAs are actually about being allowed to enter the Shengen area in the first place, being then able to freely move around within the member countries is an added bonus (actually, that's the point of the whole Shengen thingamagig :ok:).
You can no longer obtain a VISA for a single member country as that would be pointless, seeing as there would be nothing keeping you from then moving around the area freely. Countries that wish to maintain full control over their own immigration policies, like the UK for example, will have to remain outside the Shengen area for that to be at all possible.

Long-term VISAS and work/student permits are another matter entirely, as they give you the right to either reside permanently, work and/or study in a specific member country, therefore local rules will apply. But if you do get issued a work/study or permanent resident VISA in a Shengen member country you will still get a Shengen VISA, meaning you will be able to travel freely withing the area but will only have the right to work/study/reside permanently in the country that issued the VISA. Moving to another country within the area will require you to apply again in that country, as opposed to a full citizen of a member country who will have no restrictions at all as to the purpose and length of his stay.

It's really not as complex as it may seem at first glance once you understand the basic principles, but that Wikipedia page is really pretty awful and makes it look like a true nightmare. :*

Ciao,

Dg800

Incidentally I wonder how many foreign (e.g. Middle East) ATPL students in the UK FTO scene cannot actually travel outside the UK...

Every one of them except Israeli nationals and those who bothered applying for a Schengen VISA and actually got it. :cool: Which, in turn, makes me wonder how they would cope with the restrictions if they have to fly to a non-UK destination as part of their training?
Crew members are generally exempt from VISA requirements (but might not be allowed to leave the airport's sterile area), but does this apply to students/trainees as well? :confused:

Ciao,

DG800

Edit: I'm referring of course to Middle East students only.

They simply can't. A UK visa won't let you leave the UK. Same issue for the hundreds of thousands of foreigners on visa or residence permit here. A residence permit issued by a Schengen country also serves as a Schengen visa. I know a lot of Russians that live in Germany and would like to visit the UK but can't without going back to Russia and applying for a UK visa.

Tell your MP that the UK should join Schengen, would make life a lot more convenient for airplane owners :)

I believe you can but it seems to be mostly Finland and Eastern European Countries to allow Russians across the border for relatives etc and certain boat cruises. You can also get transit visa's for boat crews which are only meant to be to get them from the dock to the airport and transit home.
If you end up up off route, there is an instant sense of humour failure by immigration.

The whole immigration thing is a bit of a nightmare once you step away from mass transport and into the realms of charters and personal transport. And its always the PIC thats held responsable.

There are of course exceptions for limited-purpose VISAs, usually issued at the border crossing and yes, things can get pretty nasty if the VISA is abused, i.e. used for other purposes than originally intended. :=
There are still checks at the border and withing single member countries, the chances of being caught are not exactly nil and the consequences are usually pretty unpleasant. Being expelled and banned from a Shengen country usually means being banned from the whole Shengen area. :{

Ciao,

Dg800

I have a perminent residence visa for Germany and have flown to and from the UK a number of times with no problem, twice on airlines, once GA. Or maybe I just didn't get caught? :uhoh:


P.S. and on one of those trips I had the priviledge of meeting our own Mad_Jock personally! :p (plus a few other former Ppruners....)

Depends on your passport. If your on the list of visa not required or waver your ok.

An Indian for example wouldn't be able to and would be turned back at the border if they didn't have a visa. To be honest its Indians I have always had the problems with immigration with.

If said person was to arrive by GA and not declared or bypassed immigration controls, and then was found to be in the country the PIC would get done for transporting an illegal.