Some very interesting comments and a cracking example of thread drift!

I'd hope I'm not a 'type A' pilot. I'm very concious of my own mortality when flying and have no desire to rush in to anything. I'm also equally as concious of things I don't feel I've learnt adequately yet and have a strong desire to learn and practice them.

For example, I've booked an extra lesson this week just to take the plane over to somewhere with a hard runway and do some circuits - not something my instructor has suggested I do but I generally fly from grass and would like to practice my approach and landings somewhere less familiar.

I'm not loaded and won't be buying a plane at any point in the forseeable future, in fact I have a group lined up that have the same plane I'm learning in (Robin HR200) and, despite them having other planes too, I'm perfectly happy to stick with what I know and build up hours and experience in the Robin.

I'm with GQ on this - a pilot should be very aware of their limits and not attempt to exceed them, but shouldn't be afraid of flying within them. As part of my training, I've been made very aware of my many limits, but with experience, mentoring, training and watching others, those limits will stretch.

So long as you are very aware of your limits - why not get some of your costs paid?

Ds3 good luck in your business trips, a great way to add experience and use the plane in a useful way.

I was lucky and had a great flying buddy who often came with me, and still sometimes does on my own business trips which are reasonably frequent. It helped build my own confidence and experience, we would share legs, decisions and he would help with the logistics of the plane.

Certainly many factors already discussed need to be taken into account but for me personally it is one of the great pleasure's of GA. To be able to travel from my home base Rochester to Newcastle in around 1hr 30min and often do the trip in a day and be home for Dinner and my own bed.

I say go for it but build in steps and always have a plan B of cancel, drive, stay over etc.

Oh dear...

Peterh, I didn't make any claims about cause, just probability. They were, and are, valid. See previous threads on this sort of topic. This is not a thread about motorcycle accidents.

The picture I'm building of you is making sense.

Sadly for all, especially the less experienced, you posts here do not make sense to those with the experience to spot how often and how badly you get it wrong.

I don't wish to start or continue a p###ing contest, but I reserve the right to comment when I think that someone is posting rubbish which might lead the unwary astray.

You paid for training to become a pilot so you could enjoy flying. The training taught you to fly competently as a basic PPL and hopefully, showed you the limitations of your skills and how to improve upon them. By your very nature, it would be odd if having done all that you didn't use every opportunity to fly and learn safely.
For what its worth, this is my story...
I was in your position in the mid-Eighties and chalked up many hundreds of flying hours on business in the UK and northern Europe in a quite simple PA28-180. Small hops at first when I could and then the addition of a night rating and IMC, together with currency, gave me the ability to start using my aircraft much like a car in terms of availability - with, of course, weather limitations. I can remember my rather clammy hands as I navigated my way between Heathrow and Gatwick for the first time but also the immense sense of achievement afterwards and the confidence it built for other flights into places like Brussels - 120kts on finals with something heavy powering in behind you.
Eventually, after about three years, I stopped because my career was going in a direction that required longer abroad with more people and I had to guarantee to be in places on time. I felt that would put too much pressure on me so I decided to hang-up my business headphones and enjoy commercial flying - it was actually enjoyable then. My trips then became more of the "club-type" and remained so ever since.
The experience was fantastic, I learnt a lot and I think I became a better pilot for having done it.
So, my vote is do it.

DS3 and Riverrock, perhaps we Studes should teach the old and bold a thing or too about safe flying ;)

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more. I am very aware of my limits. Debriefs show where I have messed up and what I need to do to counteract that...I go away and read, revise do whatever I need to do and I fly that part better. Mentoring from two great friends is a fantastic help too, it gives me a different angle, another way of thinking around the issues I have.

And yes, if I do try something different and push my personal boundaries, its with my instructor, and with his blessing. HE knows my capabilities better than anyone. For Instance, the other day I landed in a strong crosswind, port wheel first wing down- there is no way I would have attempted that solo!! :)

DS3, i'm interested in your comment about only being used to grass. I am completely the opposite. With two lovely long tarmac strips to operate from, it totally bamboozled me the couple of times ATC have wanted me to operate from our grass strip - again, not yet something I would wish to do solo....:eek:

Grob Queen and Ds3, both of you still in the process of working toward your Private Pilot License, both now happily solo pilots, capable of doing cross country flights, planning your flight and flying your plan, but not yet with that rubber stamp that implies you are ready by law to fly with passengers, please go back to Post 29, by Pilot DAR, which makes much sense.

I have no qualms whatsoever about you taking your rented Robin cross country by yourself, with no pressure of meetings to attend, or colleagues/friends/family to impress. And a short local flight in good weather with your nearest and dearest would do no harm. But anyone who thinks a light aircraft is a business tool is kidding himself. Find out the hard way, don't believe me. But please go by yourself. Frequently. In winter. In rain. To Scotland, or Wales. Or even over the sea. Then come back to us and tell us how you did it.

So much for thread drift. It is not a car.

Mary,
I'm all for irony/sarcasm and have been known to dabble in the black art myself... I am no angel!! But really, are comments such as yours helpful?! I don't believe any well trained new PPL is going to take an aircraft up to Scotland or over to Wales in rain in the winter. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours of Students and new PPLs is obviously very low. :*

I also intend, when qualified, on visiting other Stations when necessary for work via the air, for fun, for currency and to somewhere where there are no landing fees! But I would certainly ONLY do this in the summer when good wx is guaranteed ;)

Oh, and Ds3, Riverrock...good luck with your training :ok:

You too Grob Queen.

And I'm learning in Scotland - its really not that scary up here!

GQ, the airfield I fly from is quite challenging with obstacles at both ends of the main runway, incuding having to lose height rapidly on approach over pylons. This is great experience, but I almost find myself a bit agoraphobic on large concrete strips now, approaching a little high and fast, so it's this I want to work on. Grass is also very forgiving, being a bit softer and less punishing if not immaculately straight on touch down.

Mary, I absolutely agree with and take on board everything said by Pilot DAR in post 29 which is very sage advice. I just took umbridge to what was a rather sweeping comment which, when summarised, essentially said new PPLs shouldn't fly because they aren't safe to do so.

Your last post also suggest it's our express intention to go "Frequently. In winter. In rain. To Scotland, or Wales. Or even over the sea". I really can't see what facts you are basing this assumption on, other than suggesting all new PPL will blindly set out in all weather conditions with no application of common sense, judgment or ability...

There are already a number of experienced pilots that have posted here confirming that a GA aircraft is in fact a perfectly viable, if not economical, business tool when treated with appropriate respect.

GQ, thank you and good luck with yours too :ok:

Ds3
Learning from a relatively difficult grass strip will have made you a better pilot from a practical point of view in my opinion, which you may not realise.
Mary
You are coming across as a pompous arrogant ass. For a supposed instructor to say "I sure as hell wouldn't fly with you", to a pilot who has yet to get the licence is nothing short of appalling.
If I were given advice from someone such as you appear to be I would go out of my way to ignore it, do the opposite, anything to let you know that you are talking rubbish.
You assume that all PPLs are stupid incompetent accidents looking for a crash site. You have stated elsewhere that PPLs don't keep a look out. You also asked a question regarding the currency of PPLs (2yearly reval) as you appear to believe that we need more supervision. You are also making remarks regarding plumbing differences indicating that you are somewhat against those of us with external systems.
As you purport to be a glider pilot, tug pilot, PPL/CPL, instructor, I find it hard to believe that you don't know the reval rules, & to flame someone for asking a perfectly good question is disgraceful.
I am beginning to think you are a flight simming troll & not a pilot of any kind.
If you are the typical example of a gliding instructor, then please advise the location of your home base so I can avoid it.
No wonder there is a gulf between power & gliding, I was contemplating visiting my nearest but I don't think I'll bother.
May I suggest that you take your arrogant head out of wherever you have stuffed it & get a life.

Absolutely, it's excellent experience and most airfields I visit now look like vast lakes of concrete which is great, but I do feel I need to hone my technique a bit just to ensure I make a nice stable approach in to the easier airfields, rather than 'dropping in'.

I think that's a dangerous assumption.

Flying from a short grass strip improves your short field skills, handling on grass, and ability to land and take-off exactly where you intended.

It's of very little use in circuit discipline, doesn't encourage you to make allowances for other aircraft with different speed ranges, and doesn't help make you very punchy on RT.

I am not a particularly experienced instructor, but I am an experienced pilot, and an instructor. As such, I've tried hard with everybody I'd taught to date to make sure they get significant experience of both lightly or uncontrolled grass-strip airfields (Popham's good for that), and over-controlled busy commercial-ish airports (for which I tend to use Cranfield).

G

N.B. Grob Queen - you can hardly use the term "Queen" in your name without most of us guessing you're probably female. On the subject of grass runways - just do it, it's no big deal. Slightly softer, slightly longer ground rolls, and you have to work a bit harder on keeping the aeroplane straight if the grass is wet. Most of which any halfway well trained pilot will just take in their stride.

Agreed G, it definitely improves certain skills but not others, hence why I'm off on Thursday (weather permitting) to a busier, concrete airfield to work on those that I feel need it.

It's an excellent idea to use your PPL for a purpose, and business use is fine in principle.

It rarely works in the UK as the Wx plays havoc, and the price of flying + landing fees/taxis from the field to city centre offices can cause problems, but GA flying is never cheap.

One thing to bear in mind is that as a new PPL holder flying a significant XC flight to an unfamiliar destination can leave you very tired, and therefore you might be next to useless at work the following day.

If you're not paid via PAYE or you own your business, then it can be a tax efficient way to get some extra hours in as well.

The tiredness issue is real but

- I wonder whether it is worse to fly for 1hr than to drive for say 3hrs (e.g.); IMHO flying on autopilot for 1hr is far less tiring than driving for 3hrs

- One can sidestep it by flying the previous night (as already mentioned) and this also preserves the option to drive till the last moment, thus removing most of the pressure

- At higher altitudes (or lower ones for that matter ;) ) you can be on oxygen, and plenty of it. Might look a bit odd doing that on the M25 :E

I hate to say this Gengis but the above statement may well be true for someone such as myself who learned at an A/G tarmac field then moved to a grass farm strip with no radio on site, very little/no traffic etc. But in the case of someone going ab-initio to PPL off grass or any other surface would imply that it was a regular Flying Training Organisation & as such all required circuit/RT/traffic awareness training will have been covered.
The fact that the strip was grass, with trees etc is only going to improve the basic, as I put it, practical skills. This in itself improves confidence & leaves more brain capacity for the rest.
I seems to me that Ds3 is attempting to become a better pilot. Why is it that instructors & would be "advisers" are constantly trying to put down anyone with a dream by ramming it down our throats that this or that is not the way to do things?
I had an instructor sit with me once (no tailwheel sig so not PIC) as I was making what I thought was a reasonable approach to my home strip, he pulled the throttle at the base leg turn & asked "are we going to make it?"---"No we're in the barley". Lesson learned.
The brown wallet is not the end for me & doubtless many others. I just wish more instructors would give us credit for that.

:D:D:D

Mind you, I can't complain about the guys at our place, no one has ever said 'You can't do that.' Probably because I have the sense not to take on more than I can handle in my newbie clothes.

One thing that does annoy me intensely, and I know it's meant with the best intentions is when you may be walking for a flight to a smallish strip and it's a bit blowy, you always get the 'Be careful, don't bend it'

Well thank God you said that, I was going to fly all the way there inverted and then do a knife edge through the hangar doors but now I'll be careful.

I think that you misunderstood me Crash1.

I was simply saying that the suggestion that learning primarily from a short grass strip will make you a better pilot is probably untrue. There are some specific skill issues associated with both that environment, and the busy "towered" environment, that are different.

My argument is that the better pilot is one who has significant experience of both environments, not just one of them.

From his response, I think that Ds3 got my point.

For me personally, flying manually in IMC for an hour is still less tiring than driving for 3 !


G

On a wider topic, I cannot help wondering whether some of the instructors working in the PPL field are real or fakes.

Time and time again (and I am really not referring to anything currently on p p r u n e) one sees posts like "how do I fly to Bournemouth; it's in controlled airspace". One should not jump on the poster, obviously, but how do the instructors manage to hang in there? The ones responsible for this kind of inability to go anywhere evidently don't give a flying **** about what value for money the punter gets for his £10000 or whatever :ugh:

If you do a PPL in the USA, you can fly from A to B in the USA. OK, I know they have a more unified airspace and ATS system than the mess we have here, but the difference is no more than a day's ground briefing. Why can't UK instructors train to the same standard? A UK PPL holder should be able to plan and execute a flight from A to B anywhere in the UK, and if he can't then he shouldn't have a PPL - or his instructor should have his FI pulled.