Alternatives to the Cessna Aerobat
 

Looking at what alternatives there are to the Cessna Aerobat for a typical flight school. Most of the aerobats around have been aerobatted to heaven and back.

The criteria is it must be multi role- ie be ok for hire, ppl work as well as aerobatics.

Has anyone got much experience on the little 118hp firefly???

Suggestions please guys???

I doubt your going to like this but I don't think there is an alternative to the Cessana 150 aerobat.

All the O-235 powered slingsby that I have seen are as equally knackard

I'd personally not look at a T67; the safety record of the small engined versions is poor, and across the fleet they all seem to spend a lot of time stuck on the ground whilst waiting for the parts to address yet another Slingsby AD.

I think that the Bulldog is worth a look - there are a number on Cs of A, great aeroplane to fly, very robust (plus all metal), and quite appealling because of the military history. Bargains are to be had buying a non-aerobatic one, then getting the spar mod done in-house to re-enable aerobatics.

G

Surely that was more the pilot / training than the aircraft?

Grob Heron if you can find them.

All the Grob Herons in the UK are at Dundee (Tayside Aviation).

Robin R2160. Two-seater, aerobatics up to Standard level but also a decent training aircraft and tourer. Regular O-3something engine that delivers 160 HP, so fuel flow, hourly cost etc. are very comparable to a C172 or PA28 of the same HP.

In contrast to the DR400 line, this one has an all-metal wing so can be kept outside. And the visibility is excellent.

Go and find a Beagle Pup, you will love it. Cheaper to run than a Bulldog and no problems with wing spar life.

The worst thing about the C150 Aerobat is the name - It's about as aerobatic as I am athletic. It's not a bad aircraft all told, but doing aerobatics in it is just plain wierd - it scraped through basic manouvres but I just couldn't get a feel for trying to do aerobatics with poor all round visibility and - FFS, a yoke.

Robin is a good call I think though not flown one. I know plenty of people that will vouch for the Slingsby as a good aerobatic chariot as well as a handy tourer.

Chipmunks are lovely if you can find them - I know of a few groups actively looking for them at the minute and they are like hens teeth, and quite expensive to boot.

I loved flying the G115E, but having spent 15min on google a stick equipped one (D or E model) looks to be as rare as the aforementioned chipmunk and have been selling for fairly strong money. It'd make a good IMC ship too.

Yep - the one nice thing about aeros in a Cessna is that, when you then aero another aircraft, almost ANYTHING is great after the C152!

Think the main alternatives have been pointed out, Bulldog is great but a bit expensive, Pup is good if you can find a nice 150, Slingsby - well just read the other posts, Robin is probably about your best bet. You then get into the more serious Aerobatic machines.
If you were not after one to hire out then the RVs are great for groups, but of course not able to be used for normal club work.

Spares and Maintenance
 

These are the problems with Bulldogs, Pups, Robins and Slingsbys. No problems with Cessnas spares and simple maintenance, so although not the best for aeros certainly takes some beating for all round general use.

Citabria 7ECA

Tiger Moth. :E

With the possible exception of Cessna, I think every manufacturer of light aircraft has in the past been bankrupt a few times, is currently experiencing difficulties, or will be in difficulties in the future when the investors decide to stop funding. Or when the R&D department overstretches itself and tries to bring to many types to the market simultaneously, or when the customers lose interest because there's not enough different types available from the same manufacturer (so no growth path), or when the engine manufacturer goes bankrupt, or when the FAA/CAA/... forces a complex AD on the type, which the manufacturer has to fix under warranty. Or something else.

So if you're going to base your purchase decision on the expected continuity of support from the manufacturer, you may find yourself limited to flying in the back seat of a Boeing or Airbus only.

A significant advantage of both the Bulldog and Chipmunk is that neither are 'EASA' aircraft, so will not require pilots to hold an EASA Aerobatic Rating in order to fly aerobatics.

The IMCR will continue to be acceptable for both aircraft as well!

I flew the CAP 10C recently and it's a beaut. Fast, agile, strong and with a ROC like a homesick angel, you just point the stick and go. It's a slippery little beast so the rejoin and circuit need a bit of getting used to, but great, responsive aircraft. I've no idea of mantenance & servicing because it's owned by the Tiger Club, but in my limited experience there seem to be no availibility problems.

No good for a flight school but I was given the chance to fly and aerobat a 160 Hp Vans RV-4 a while back. Probably the nicest light aircraft I've had the privilege of flying, including the Chippy and the Bulldog.

Is the Citabria Decathlon persona non gratis? It's a capable a/c with 180 horses to drag it round the sky. It also has a clipped wing the role, whilst still not very good, isn't that bad.

I used to own a T67B with 115 hp trying their best. No penetration without power so anything inverted soon became brick like. The big wing meant rolling was a leisurely affair with time to have a quick sarny on the way round.

Oh, and its spin could easily kill you. Apart from that a great little a/c.

I also used to fly a C150 Aerobat and loved it; until I flew an FRA150L:8
It had more donkeys and 182 wing struts. Loved it. A really good entry level mount that was pretty much vicless but demanded accuracy to be flown well.

SGC

Robin. :ok:

Also known as the Alpha:
ALPHA 160A & AI
A Superb All-Metal Two Seat Aerobatic TrainerEqually at home as a hard-working basic trainer, a spectacular aerobatic performer, or as a fast, cross-country aircraft, the Alpha 160 is an attractive, high quality two-seater, built for security and strength to Aerobatic category. Safe, comfortable, demonstrative, with conventional and predictable reactions, it is an ab-initio aerobatic machine with outstanding visibility and bubble canopy, which students and instructors alike will love.

Quick to respond and manoeuvrable, it is particularly good at providing practice in precision flying. Granted aerobatic category certification, with a rugged airframe designed to withstand load factors ranging from +6G to -3G, safe and predictable in any configuration, the ALPHA 160 is ideal for initiating to aerobatics, for teaching stall and spin avoidance, or for recovering from unusual attitudes.

Capable of cruising at 120kts at 3500ft (130kts at 8000ft) and featuring an instrument panel that can be fitted with a full range of instruments, the ALPHA 160 is an excellent trainer for navigation, instrument flying, or providing a fast comfortable, low cost two-seat cross-country aircraft with 35kg baggage capacity.

The ALPHA 160 is available with carburettor as the 160A and with fuel injection and fully inverted fuel and oil as the 160Ai.

Enlighten us……..how athletic are you?

###Ultra Long Hauler###