gyrocopter
 

having read an article recently on gyrocopters, I quite fancy a go in one. has anyone any experience of them and are they easy to fly/land. i particularly like what appears to be a very slow landing speed with no stall

Yes, Magificent! I flew with Frank at: Tragschrauber Flugunternehmung last summer, and had a blast. If I were not so happy with the plane I own, I'd have one of these!

I highly recommend you go and have a flight with Frank in Germany, you'll be sold...

Gyrocopters are a lot of fun, and for the most part, very easy to fly. They're flown more like a conventional gear airplane than anything. The land slowly, they're easy to maneuver, and running out of rotor energy is not really a problem as they're always in a constant state of autorotation.

Some gyros are safer than others, and some are easier than others. The only real danger to flying a gyro, perhaps a little more of a problem on some of the cheaper or earlier designs, is "bunting." From the pilot perspective, this is a tendency to go nose down and dive into the ground; clearly an undesirable thing. It's a pilot-induced situation involving reversal of airflow through the rotor disc. It can be brought on by a hard pushover, and it can be unrecoverable.

Gyros that use a vertical stabilizer are less likely to bunt, and gyros that have the centerline of thrust (axis of the crankshaft, essentially) in line with the center of gravity of the gyro tend to be more resistant to bunting, as well. This is the reason that you'll see a lot of gyro designs out there with the pilot sitting in what looks like an unusually high position, with longer spindly legs; the design has been made to put the center of gravity higher, and in line with, or above the center of thrust.

The center of thrust is naturally high because of the need to elevate the engine to give propeller clearance.

Some designs use a horizontal stabilizer, some don't. The gyro design dictates, but designs not using a horizontal stabilizer tend to be ones that are more "expert" in nature, and ones that are far less forgiving.

You'll also see two basic power configurations; pusher, and tractor. More gyros are found as pushers these days, but the original configuration, and generally the most stable, is the tractor arrangement. This also more fully replicates a fixed wing airplane.

A few gyros have an elementary collective control, and with adequate rotor inertia before takeoff, are capable of a "jump start," or "jump takeoff" that requires no forward roll. The Air and Space 18A was one such gyro, but very few gyros can do this. Most use a "pre-rotator" to get an initial spin on the rotor, then use the forward takeoff roll to get the rotor going the rest of the way. Rolls tend to be fairly short, and landing rolls are extremely short. In fact, one can generally land, and come to a stop, and with a little back pressure on the stick, move backward.

Various degrees of enclosure can be had with different gyro designs. Some leave the user out in the breeze, while others entirely encapsulate the user.

Find a reputable trainer and get an introductory ride. Be forewarned; gyro flying is very addictive, and a LOT of fun.

Gyro flying in the UK appears to centered at Little Rissington
A few years ago the UK CAA reduced the credits for fixed wing pilots because of the large number of incidents involving bunting as described by SNS3Guppy

This sounds like the classic hazard for fixed-wing pilots making the transition to helicopters.

If I could risk a gross generalisation: when a heli pilot loses the plot, he pulls back on the cyclic (among other things). The FW pilot might 'let go' or push forward the yoke.

This weekend
 

Fantastic seat-of-the-pants flying with touring capability :ok:

Suggest you get yourself to the NEC Birmingham this weekend:
Welcome to The Flying Show - the UK's Largest Indoor Aviation Event

British Rotorcraft Association for UK flying schools:
British Rotorcraft Association

Gyrocopters = Good :ok:

Autogyros = Bad :(

I say this because all the people I know who have owned autogyros have crashed them, one fatally.

Sir George Cayley

... and the difference is....?

What's in a name?
 

I believe gyroplane is the word used in the ANO and by the CAA, which appears to be a generic term to describe all flying machines of that category. Gyrocopter and Autogyro are particular company's tradenames for their own versions or models of gyroplane, which have come into common usage. Gyrocopter is used by Benson and Autogyro (or Autogiro) by Cierva.

Similar to other commercial examples such as Hoover/vacuum cleaner (for those of us old enough to remember the pre-Dyson years), JCB/excavator and Perspex/acrylic sheet.

As to the term used to describe a gyro.

My F.A.A. license is described as a.

Commercial Gyroplane Pilot License.

Guppy has explained it well.

I wonder how many recall the famous Fairey Rotodyne A gyroplane that used compressed air to initially turn the rotor before it reverted to an autogyro. One remaining example resides in the Woodley Air Museum.

I do remember the Rotodyne, at least as an Airfix 1/72nd model I assembled almost 50 years ago. It is reputed to have been terribly noisy - a complaint not often heard from aviation enthusiasts.

Thanks for your responses. I had a look at bunting mentioned by guppy and whoppity. One of the clips on U tube show a chap lower the nose pick a spot on the ground and the fly straight at it which looked a bit frightening. Burylad - I will take a trip to the NEC on Sunday to have a look at whats on offer as long as it doesnt snow heavily.

Must say I'm more & more impressed by the development of autogyros over the last few years and am getting sorely tempted to give it a try:

Two questions:

Does anyone know how the PPL(G) syllabus takes into account the experience of a PPL(A)?

Does the 500' rule not apply? There's a terrific video here Chris Jones Gyroplanes | Trial Flights & Gift Vouchers just scroll down & play the taster video

Gyros
 

If you are interested in learning how to fly gyros then take a look at the British Rotorcraft Association website www.gyroflight.co.uk and look at the list of Instructors and / or the Gyrocopter Experience www.gyrocopterexperience.com . For the record I run the Gyrocopter Experience at Old Sarum.

Gyrocopters, Gyroplanes and Autogyros arer all the same thing. Gyroplane is the "official" title (as used by the CAA and FAA), autogyro is the term used by Ken Wallis (of Little Nellie fame) and many others, gyrocopter is the most searched name on Google.

The accident record of gyros in the UK has been transformed since the arrival of factory-built aircraft certified to BCAR Section T (the UK CAA's light gyroplane approval standard). Prior to 2006 there were about 40 to 50 gyroplanes flying in the UK at any one time and we averaged one fatal a year. Since 2006 the number of gyroplanes in the UK has trebled, the amount of flying taking place has increased massively (due to the better capability and usability of the factory-built machines) and we haven't had a single fatal accident in the factory-built Section T aircraft.

Before anyone jumps on me not all of the amateur built gyroplanes were or are bad, but it's hard for the newcomer to know which aircraft they can trust and which they can't. They also require a certain degree of dedication to build and / or maintain, so it's not for everyone.

The minimum training requirement for a PPL(G) is 40 hours. If you hold a PPl(A), and NPPL(A), an NPPL(M) or a gliding Silver C you get a 10 hour credit. If you hold a PPL(H) you get a 20 hour credit. Full details are in LASORS (on the CAA website).

If youy can get to The Flying Show at the NEC this weekend then the industry will be well represented - as well as the BRA there will be manufacturers' stands (Magni and Rotorsport UK) as well as The Gyrocopter Experience - our main aim at the show is to provide education - to introduce people to the world of gyroplanes and help them take their first steps to becoming a gyro pilot.

The current issue of Flyer magazine has a write-up on the Magni M16, the next edition of the LAA mag has a report on the Magni M24. Both are worth a look if you want to know what it is like to fly one. Alternatively just find yourself an Instructor with a factory-built aircraft and find out for yourself!

Hopefully if the weather isnt too bad I will have a look at some at the Flying exhibition on Sunday at the NEC. Having only had a few hours lessons in a Cessna I had given some thought to swapping to a gyrocopter a. because it looks like fun and b. because the landing looked easier at nice slow speeds without the risk of stalling but maybe it only looks easy in the hands of an expert. A trial lesson when the weather gets better is probably the best way forward.
Steve - I take your point about the factory built ones. Some of the early ones did look a bit heath robinson.

GyroSteve - many thanks for the information, I will be down at the NEC show on Sunday so may get chance to say hello!!

Cheers

Have a look at rotarywingforum, all your questions about gyro's will be answered with a quick search of the archive and if not they are mostly a friendly bunch happy to answer your questions.

Chasg; It is fun. Landings are a doddle. Vertical descents are a blast.

Here's a taster;

YouTube - KK070810 Happiness is a vertical yaw string.MOV

I've just watched this one......

YouTube - M24 ORION by Magni

and it convinces me more than ever I've got to have a go!!

this one isn't bad either:::

YouTube - Magni M24 Orion

Magni makes a great product, albeit very expensive.

I was disappointed to see American Gyrocopter (Groen Brothers) go out of business, as theirs were very good products, and they offered good training and support.

There does come a point of diminishing returns, however, when the simplicity and grace of the gyro can be overwhelmed by excessive cost.

The experimental world goes that way, too; homebuilding airplanes can be economical, but the whole business of homebuilding airplanes has lead to some that are far from affordable (though there are many great designs out there, and some with very exciting performance, too). I suppose it depends on your resources and what you're after, and I'm certainly not maligning Magni or any other manufacturer. There's no doubt that you get a great product in exchange for your hard earn pounds, dollars, euros, or whatever. Whether the cost of the exchange is worth it or not is entirely up to the user, but I think the simplicity of the gyro does take a bend away from it's true appeal when it begins to becomle too costly and complex.

Nice video.

Interesting perspective SNS3 - bear in mind I'm coming from flying a Cherokee6, burning 1 litre of Avgas a minute!! I'm now looking at what I might like to do next, and basically I see three choices:

1: get into another group like my old PA32 group, pay lots of money and do what I know

2: stay with fixed wing, but move to something more cost effective - I'm seriously looking at Flight Design CTLS

3: do something new - Autogyros really are starting to fascinate me - BUT - I already ride a motorbike, so I well understand being cold, wet and miserable! When I look at the Magni it does seem to start to combine the fun of the new, with "some" of the familiarity of the old

Anyone else in the same dilemma?

Give Mac Smith at Airbourne Aviation at Popham Airfield a bell. He teaches the NPPL G and has a number of students learning on it. Great little school and not too far from Ruislip.
I went up with Mac for 30 mins in it, just for a bit of fun and it was quite a ride!

Autogyros near Cheshire?
 

My Wife has bought me a trial flight in an autogyro. After I've experienced it and been hooked, is it possible to hire one or join a group?

Also, should I decide to get a license, how realistic is it to be proficient in 20hrs. (I hold a helo license)?

Thanks in anticipation.

Somewhat strangely you cannot hire one (once you have a licence). You would have to buy a "share" and also AFAIK you can't get hull insurance!

These things are likely to change at some point in the future as the overall accident rate for gyros is falling very quickly thanks to the influence of the "modern" gyros like the MT-03

Very interesting. I read the review in this month's LAA mag and was impressed. I have a PPL(A) and a PPL(H) - is that still 20 hours credit against a PPL(G)? Second question is where can I try one in the Midlands?

Flying a Gyrocopter in UK
 

Try Where to Fly this website for more info. I know these guys fly out of the Long Mynd Midland (Gliding Club) occasionally but they also have links to UK based instructors.

TerryWalsh

Proficency;
 

SFD, proficiency after 20 hrs should be no problem to a helo pilot.
Try to view it as a different aircraft type entirely.

Very easy to fly, and great fun.

A few bits of info
 

Just to clear up a few points:

• The CAA won't allow gyros to be rented in the UK, so post-PPL you need to look at either buying your own or joining a group. We are working with the CAA on allowing rental and they have agreed "in principle" but they are in no rush to implement
• Hull insurance is available but it isn't cheap (the market is small, the track record isn't there and there is only one supplier)
• There aren't any Instructors in the midlands, so you'll have to travel if you want to give it a go. Take a look here www.gyroflight.org for a list of who's where
• Licencing requirements are in LASORS - minimum training is 40hrs, you get a 10hr credit for a fixed wing / microlight licence and 20hrs for helicopters. You can't get more than a 20hr credit if you hold both!

Gyro activity in the UK falls in to two fairly distinct camps - the homebuilders flying single-seaters and the RAF 2000, and the factory-built fleet of MTs and Magnis. All the growth has been in the factory-built world, but the homebuilt stuff is still popular. I had a quick look at the numbers yesterday - there were about 29 new factory-built gyroplanes delivered in the UK in 2010, which is pretty good going for a niche market.

GyroSteve - thanks for the info. My interest would be in the factory built models as I wouldn't have the time to build another aircraft. I assume that I would have to do the 20 hours plus a rotorcraft specific tech exam as presumably my PPL(H) will exempt me from the other exams?

York is not too far away so I will go up there when the weather improves a bit and have a go.

Can anyone confirm that a NPPL (G) is possible, ie: GP signature medical? I thought one could only go the full PPL (G) with class 2 medical.

What's the total credit available?
 

Thanks for your replies guys. Look forward to the experience!

SFD

Hi Guys

To answer your questions:

• If you have a PPL(H) then the minimum training requirement is 20 hours (10 dual, 10 solo including 3 hours solo cross-country) plus a GFT. You will also need to take the Gyroplane Technical exam and there is an oral exam as part of the GFT
• The PPL(G) is a UK National PPL but it isn't an NPPL. However the NPPL medical is recognised for the PPL(G).

Regards

Steve

"Top Gear for Gyros"
 

The full version of "Top Gear For Gyros" is now on YouTube:

These machines are versatile and tremendous fly to fly!

I have recently flown in (on!?) an MT03 and a Magni M24, the latter being enclosed has a very civilised cabin, well equipped panel with plenty of room and outstanding visibility.

What struck me first was the rock solid,smooth stability even in very gusty conditions which can throw a GA aircraft and its occupants all around the sky. I think this is a very important feature on longish sectors particularly on a thermic summer day.

Allied to this is the ability to operate in wind conditions outside of the parameters of most small FW aircraft. If the wind is still a bit tricky, take off at an angle across the runway!

They are however generally slow compared with common GA types - making every journey 20% longer or so. BUT the view on the way is so much better!

I fly both SEP and 3 axis microlights and have flown large and small helicopters. The gyrocopter has the attributes of all of these in parts and its popularity should hopefully continue to drive costs down.

In time the hiring question should be resolved permitting non equity fly by the hour operations.

The ideal would be a version which is the equivalent of a cabriolet car. A fully enclosed canopy which is easily and quickly removed in fine weather to provide that authentic wind in your face experience!

I wish I was brave enough to fly one! They look great fun, but I'd go and kill myself in one.

Little Rissington
 

The Airfield is owned by the MOD. The hangers are managed by Devonair. Great place to store and aircraft etc. and I have had no problems with them. In fact very friendly people at Devonair.

However as for getting Gyro advice or maintenance carried out I found it very difficult if not impossible. The communication skills I have found seriously lacking. I am not referring to Devonair in this paragraph.

I look at it this way. If I am to get any maintenance or flying training carried out I need to address this question. "If they cant be bothered to communicate when they are probably looking to build up their gyro business and community, how will they behave when there is an enquiry regarding some issue or comeback?"

A gyro "manufacturer" not a million miles from LR has refused to communicate with me, when I would, in all probability have bought one of his machines.

After very close to 40 years of professional aviation trying to get back to basic fun flying I am at a loss as to my treatment and have never been blocked or "fixed" to this extent. If they actually grew some b:mad:s and told me what the problem was I would have some sort of understanding and not reduced to posting on a public website.

RAF 2000
 

Can anyone provide any insight into the safety characteristics of the raf2000 with horizontal stabiliser fitted?

Or for say £20k budget for a second hand machine should I forget 2 seat closed canopy configuration and go for something like a Merlin or Cricket instead?

Ken still looking for records