Manchester control - Big attitude
 

Flying back to London from Liverpool this week, I got verbal GBH from Manchester Approach accusing me of all sorts - entering Controlled airspace, climbing too early etc - I wasn't even on their frequency (I was asked to call them). In the last 5 years I can't remember such attitude - especially when I was very careful about positions, heights & climbs....is this their usual disdainful treatment of GA?

Absolutely not!!

I talk to them a lot and I can't understand why you got GBH unless you really were being naughty. They vary between the very very best and the 'OK' in my experience, depending who you get. Never had anything inappropriate from them, and usually I can't praise them enough. If you get Tony Brown, Paul Eyte, and one or two others you'll be in PPL heaven - these guys will do all they can and more to ease your flight. Some of the non-GA oriented ones won't be vary helpful - but they'll be OK.

SSD

If you were ok then they were wrong. If you were in their airspace then you must realise you can cause them a lot of disruption. - so you deserve a bollocking.

If you don't know what you did wrong, or believe you didn't do anything wrong, I would suggest ringing ATC as soon as poss after you land and explain that you don't know what you failed to do correctly and can they tell you so you don't do it again. It would be a brave (and foolish) controller who wouldn't explain what the difficulty was. The problem is that it is difficult to get an explanation on the radio because of congestion on the frequency and these things are best discussed on the phone.
It is often difficult to get a full picture when you are flying because a busy unit like Manchester will have different controllers working the inbounds and outbounds in addition to the tower.
I've always found Manchester pretty helpful.
Even though a few days have past, I would still ring (when they are quieter, not the afternoon peak) and explain what you flight was and did. If you ask for help you will probably get it.

A long time back i was flying from santoft to blackpool via pole hill when i landed at blackpool i was "asked" to phone the manchester ATC unit.

It transpired that they had tracked me on radar transiting the manchester zone without clearance , i found this all a bit strange as at the alleged time i was transiting the leeds zone and in contact with leeds ATC and i sujested that if they wanted to take the matter further then i would like to see the leeds radar and voice tapes ,at this sujestion the guy on the phone backed off a bit and no more was said about it.

The only explanation that i can come up with is that as i passed over the POL VOR i saw another aircraft heading north about 500ft above me and that this guy was the one that had been in the zone and that as the two radar returns merged on the radar screen the confusion started and so manchester ATC got the wrong aircraft !........roll on mode S i say and stop all this confusion.

A & C sure you are only joking but steady on with the mode S - I understand the only mode S transponder suitable for light aircraft is around £2,500 plus all the fitting costs - not sure we really want to go there.

Mode S is for air transport, not fun flying. If they want it, they must pay for it.

SSD

Hi Dakota,

I have flown Helis through and round EGCC quite often, Even asked them for a lot of info regarding their min alt for heavy metal over POL, because I use that all the time to fly over to Yorkshire, they were nothing but accomodating and helpful in the extreme, the only area that you may have infringed when flying from EGGP to London would be the NEW LOW LEVEL corridor( re-aligned) there are area's of this that can be downright Dangerous at times, best ring and talk to them ask for their help I am sure they will repond!

I find Man variable at times .

They can be quite fun at times but yesterday they managed to pee us both off .

So it is not just the pvt guys who get hassle .

Fuji only half a joke see my post on the mode "s" thread.

Variable in my experience. I once got verbal abuse over the airwaves for unauthorised entry of the CTZ when it was quite clear to me that I was 2NM to the North of it (Unlimited vis and unmistakeable ground features/GPS/VOR/DME plot - and accurate navigation!) The next time I flew that same route, I didn't call them. A bit naughty perhaps (I was a lot less experienced in those days), but if they persist in overcontrolling and admonishing in in-appropriate ways, they will in future undoubtedly elict more of this response in return.

Other times, they have been brilliant - particularly when using tha VFR corridor.

[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Dan Winterland ]

My experiences of Manchester have all been good - mostly when using the low level corridor. On occassions, the info provided has gone way above what I would expect from a unit as busy as they are.

Seems that Manchester can produce a mixed bag. As it was I did ring the duty controller after I landed (at their request) and he proceded to re-iterate what had been said to me on the airwaves (when I had actually been with Liverpool Approach anyawy). You never can be 100% sure, but it was CAVOK and I know my way back and forth from Liverpool reasonably well, having done it about 10 times in the last 6 months. I know the airspace well - I know when I can and can't climb and what the limits are. Even if I was wrong, they seemed to have a huge amount of time to deliver a bollocking if they were busy. Perhaps a suggested chat later (by phone) might have been more appropriate and less argumentative / more productive? I think the bloke just had an anti-GA bee in his underpants. There also wasn't any heavy stuff in the area - it was CAVOK - NSW ... I would have been able to see most of it

I've always found Man App friendly and helpful in the LLR, even when they are obviously very busy with inbound/outbound heavy traffic. The three controllers I've met are all keen GA pilots and anything but anti. Their attitude is 'If we can help you, we will help you'. Perhaps, considering the number of unidentified, and often weak signals they get from aircraft in, or more accurately, believing they are in the LLR, Man App can be excused for being 'concerned'. Take a look at the 'Where was everyone today?' thread for further eveidence of Man App's GA friendliness.