First aerobatic experience
 

Had a ride in the front seat of an S2-A on Saturday with 1/2 Cubans,reverse half Cubans,spins,loops,roll of the top,inverted flight followed by a push (ouch!).
Hats off to you guys who do that all the time,the forces (+5/-3) are truly incredible-nothing can prepare you for that.
For anybody who has not done this-you must.You may not want to ever do it again but you'll never forget it.
Many thanks to the pilot-I asked him to give me the full beans and he duly obliged.
These a/c look a bugger to land with the restricted forward viz-a real handful and I reckon any PPl dreaming of getting one of these should not underestimate the skill involved.
MM

Did you liked it? be carefull, aerobatics makes su dependant, I tried 2 years ago like you and now it is all I fly, I wish much more pilots would have the experience at least once in their lifes.

Best regards,

Super Decathlon Power!!! :)

Well, if you're learning to fly aerobatics you wouldn't necessarily have to do that in a Pitts, Extra, Cap-21 or similar, initially. There are perfectly normal, basic trainers capable of aerobatics up to Sportsman levels. Robin 2160, General Avia F22, Fuji 200 and Slingsby Firefly are just some of the names. These aircraft have normal carbureted engines and no sustained inverted flight systems (so inverted flight capability is normally limited to a dozen seconds or so). But at the same time you don't have to break the bank to fly them - they will typically cost just slightly more than your average PA28 or C172 per hour. And they have nosewheels so are just as easy to land as the spamcans you were trained on.

One word of warning though: this stuff is seriously addictive.

Had my first experience under the tuition of Cas Smith at Full Sutton.
Out of this world and seriously addictive.
Slingsby firefly....had a headcam on at the time and videoed the whole flight. A little jerky at times as I was looking around and at the instruments as well as trying to take in the view.
Edited it down to around 6 or so minutes. Its not brilliant but it does remind me what a great flight it was.

The Pitts Special
 

Ppruners,

It is not an aeroplane - it is a love-affair.

Totally turned my world upside down then turned my whole life about. I could live without a girlfriend, I could possibly survive without a dog but I would wither without a Pitts!

Took a 50 yr old bithday-boy, up for a 15 min loop and swoop tonight. No hard aeros, just +3.8,-0.6

Stik

Stik,I heard you but couldn't see you.
Sounded great.
Lister:)

I hope a certain heli flyer is not reading this :}

Does this mean the S2A is back in the air?

Slingsbys and Fujis might be able to go upside down but you can't beat a Pitts for that catching a tiger by the tail feeling. With nose wheels you never get that stomach clenching return to earth and the tremendous sigh of relief when you get to turn the engine off. The pitts is truly the way to go. Stiks right , its a love affair.

Aero's trial lesson (or 4!) and I fell in love with upside downy stuff... Did my ppl, complex prop differences and tailwheel conversion - just so that I could do aero's.

Took me 4 years from start to finish, but I passed my AOPA aero's Basic certificate a few weeks ago :cool: and immediately carted my old man off for a quick wizabout.

So come on guys...... I'm not quite sure how far I can push the aero's love without pushing my other love a bit too far - so pleeeeease don't tempt me with talk of Pitts..

OK, I promise not to mention Pitts.
Spent last weekend aerobating VH-MCR - its the most fun you can have in public in the daytime. When I fly for the Royal Victorian Aero Club's Young Eagles I take either the Decathlon or the unmentionable one - very few decline to do aerobatics and all come back smiling.

that is a nice Pitts!

Had my first go at aeros in a firefly last week as a birthday present. I know my motion sickness tolerance is less than most but was pleasantly surprised I lastest longer than I thought before the hot flush started. It was time to quit whilst I was ahead. However I am not going to be put off by my stomach because I enjoyed it too much. Can anybody recommend an aeros instructor who is tolerant of those with a 'sensitive' stomach in the south of England?

I know a couple - I'll send you a PM

So can I tempt you with anything else?;)

I doubt it... :p

Stik - A tired old Hector
 

Helped out today for a N Cambs charity and took 10 disadvantaged folk up for a loop and swoop.

Started out with v slow aileron rolls, then 400deg/sec rolls. Next huge pitch, gentle roll input and gentle barrels. Some went on to want to loop, Cuban, vertical Split S and Avalanche.

One girlie, Lucy, wanted more so we flicked on the up-line, ran out of oomph and gently [span] spinned down for 2 rotations before we returned to "base".

A worthwhile day out.

Justiciar - I was fortunate enough to be able to use a chum's new S2C


Stik

Pitts Special - IT IS A LOVE AFFAIR

Oh yes. Initially a birthday present for me in a Stampe...which was great, but a couple of weeks later a friend of mine bought a share in a Pitts Special and now uses me as a guniea-pig. Completely addictive. I won't pretend I haven't used the sick bag on more than one occasion, but after a boring day at work it's just superb to pootle along to the airfield and spend some time doing weird stuff with the G's.

Highly recommended!!

In a Pitts!? Seriously? I thought 400+ was monoplane only territory?

I agree, all pilots should give aerobatics a bash. The skills in aircraft control, which can be picked up (use of co-ordinated rudder, slow-flight, aggressive but smooth control inputs etc) will undoubtedly make you a much more competent (and confident) aviator.

I was "scared" for many years, and my only taste of aero's was in the Air Cadets at the end of an air experience flight. I didn't really take to it, so decided maybe it wasn't for me.

Then, after attending a flight school who prided themselves on aerobatic instruction, I thought, maybe I'll give it a go again (as many view this as proper flying, macho etc.) so I did. Got through the first flight (an hour in an open-cockpit biplane) in one piece, holding the contents of my stomach in until after I de-planed... before running to the toilet! (and feeling rough for 4-5 hours after) Second time, I thought maybe this still isn't for me, but persevered (and wasn't sick, but did feel queasy towards the end) and tried to "man up" a bit. Third time, flew more aggressively, concentrating more on the manoeuvres etc. Then, after that, a few more hours until I got signed off to go play solo, and that was it!

It's very addictive, and any sickness issues will usually be overcome with practice, you simply build a tolerance to it.

I'd just like to add, it's not all about pulling G's and making people feel sick. Most manoeuvres can be flown very smoothly, even at competition level. So, don't be fooled by the show-off who likes everyone to see his post-flight G-meter readings... as it counts for nothing.

If anyone (preferably pilots) in the Leeds/York area would like to come along for a jolly sometime in a Slingsby, please PM me!

400degs/sec
 

Well - I was counting elephants and I am sure that I was back to wings level in less than a full elephant! It is certainly faster than the 2A - the ailerons have square tips and the elevator bay runs to the end of the wing.

Years ago I watched Kester Scrope playing with the then new Extra and could not believe the roll rate.


Stik

Roll-rates. (Please don't think I've 7500'ed this thread)
 

Look at the figures... Pitts say 300+ for an S-2C, Extra quote 400, Edge 540 are saying 420.

I was told by some people who know what they're talking about, that the days of biplanes are over, as they roll too slow because they have "all that wing". I would have thought smaller length wings and 4 ailerons would equal more roll, but apparently not.

I saw the Russians practising at Sherburn, and their Sukhoi's were rolling insanely quickly, even in slow-flight.

So, as far as I know (now) monoplanes, with pretty much full-span ailerons, are the fastest rollers.

Hopefully someone better informed (I've only flown some of the more mundane acro types) can shed some light. :ok:

Cough...splutter...heresy!

You'll note that both the Standard and Intermediate UK National Championships this year had the highest overall scores delivered by a Pitts S2A and S2C respectively, beating plenty of monoplanes in the process, and it wasn't that long ago that an S2A won the Advanced UK national championship. A higher roll rate is only of benefit if you can stop the roll precisely on axis, and above a certain level it can become a hinderance.....and anyway, nothing comes close to the sheer immediate feel of a Pitts, particularly in single-seat form.

That being said, in terms of absolute roll-rate, the sheer amount of aileron you can hang from a carbon wing vs. what you can safely put on the wire-braced wing of a Pitts will mean that the maximum rate of roll of the monoplane will always be higher.

Not a Biplane to be seen this week at WAC apart from the one that ferries judges up and down to check the cloudbase. Biplanes do quite well at Standard and Intermediate levels but hardly feature at Advanced and Unlimited levels

There are several reasons

Biplanes have more drag.
Biplanes are small so cannot be seen as clearly as the larger monoplanes.
I'm sure there are other reasons.

Its not just about roll rate, but the ability to stop precisely as well. The CAP222 had a roll rate that was too fast to stop accurately and Alan Cassidy reduced the stick movement to slow it down and make it more controllable

I think Stiks point was that the first roll was sloooooow and the 2nd one was fast. How fast depends on how fast you can say elephant.!!!

It does sound like they all had a good time, which is the main point.

ZA

E L E P H A N T
 

ZA

I learned how to say e l e p h a n t in Ozark, Alabama at Curtis Pitts' birthday bash several years ago!

:E:E

I agree... I've read my previous posts over, so I hope nobody thinks I'm having a go at Biplanes, especially Mr Pitts' finest!

I haven't flown anything like the calibre of aircraft we're talking about here, but I have a feeling, that given the chance, I'd much prefer flying a Pitts than one of those plastic wonders. :eek:

Happy Aerobat-ing!

Just to add my two-penneth...
I own a Nipper and for me it really is the most fun per pound I can have in the air. I charge myself £24 per hour which breaks even on AVGAS and makes a little for a fund on MOGAS. Normal 'after work' trips are around 30 mins, so for £12 I have a ball!
I operate in quiet airspace and am in the 'aeros' area in just 5 mins after take off.
There is a Nipper for sale on AFORS at the moment (most definitely not mine!) so for the financially challenged aeros fan there are options.
The aircraft is easy to live with, easy to maintain within the LAA scheme, and when coupled with a well put together engine and ignition system (1834 VW and leburg on mine) they are reliable and safe. Gone are the days of wonky mags and regular forced landings.
Roll rate not up to Pitts levels, but I dont need that. I do not intend to compete with it (yet..) but it could hold its own in beginner class competions.
Long live the Tipsy/Slingsby/Fairey Nipper.

CRX.

I'll second what CRX says, done nearly 30hrs in my Nipper since June and it just gets better the more I fly it!
OK, its no Pitts but with 1000fpm climb and decent roll rate, as Paul says it gives more than enough fun for £20 an hour!

If you dont want the worry of hand swinging etc you can always go for the 'civilised' Jabiru version with an electric start and extra 20hp.....handy if your a 'big lad' like myself!