Navajo V's Cheiftain
 

Hi all

I'm looking into either a Navajo or a Chieftain.

Just wondering what experience people have had with these two aircraft, i know the history of them but not sure what real world performance and operating cost differences you get?

What sort of TAS would I realistically get at FL100 and what kind of load could I get out of each respective aircraft? Obviously the Chieftain will be more expensive to run, but do you get an increase in performance/load carrying which makes it worth it?

Thanks for your input

The Cheiftain has a bigger payload and can have upto 10 seats!

Navajo can have upto 8 seats.

Both are excellent mini airliners and handle surprising well.

Performance is similar, its a few years back but I think we used to fly the Cheiftain around at 160 knots being very kind, 180 knots achived by using lots more fuel! Sure you can google a flight manual up!

You will find the operating cost the same, the purchase price will obviously be higher for a late Cheiftain than an older Navajo.

One of the best aircraft around, imho, much better than the effort from Cessna :ouch:

are there still a share available in the Navajo based at EGTR ?

The PA31-310 had the worst (non ergonomic) fuel management system of the aircraft I have flown, although I don't have so many types in my logbook.

However, I will second it's docile nature as it made me look a better pilot than I was.

Fuel management is simple on any of the PA31-310, -325 & 350s. Mains for takeoff, landing & manoeuvering, and aux for cruise. No X-feed allowed except in an emergency so even that bit of management is non-existant in normal ops. Systems are the same between them all with minor variations eg some have an inline electric pump, various speed differences depending on year & model variation, and a pre-select flap selector on later models instead of a run-while-held- switch. Later ones have a much better light switches & warning lights layout.

As a general rule I'd choose a Chieftain over the Navajo for the additional room - especially the cockpit if I'm the one flying it! The Navajo's crew seat travel is limited by the spar carry through structure. I find a Chieftain a bit easier to land a greaser. It's also easier to keep CoG where it should be. Chieftain can take an extra 50lb in the nose locker (200lb instead of 150)

No matter which one you get make sure it has, or you have installed, both a VG kit to increase the MTOW and an engine data monitor for lean of peak ops/general monitoring of the engine. VG kit gives between 240lb & 340lb increase in MTOW at the cost of 5 kts or so. It turns the aircraft from one with a mediocre payload/range trade off into one that's pretty good.

If you can, opt for one with a crew door. Some people don't like them but they're worth every extra ounce when you have a bum in each seat or have a full cabin of cargo. Make sure the seals & latches are in good condition and adjusted properly. Also opt for wing lockers. You'll lose a small amount of cruise and won't gain as much from a VG kit but the volume & 150lb limit per side is wonderful.

In a Chieftain (-350)I get:
~165-170kts @ ~38-42 USG/hr leaned ROP. 44 USG in one aircraft but I always felt the numbers didn't quite add up. Either the EGT was out, or the MP guage or the fuel flow. It was a bit of an old dog so maybe a little bit of everything wasn't quite right.

In a Navajo (-310):
~170-175 @ ~32-34 USG/hr leaned ROP

In a Navajo (-325 but with the Panther Navajo kit so now -350 engines):
~190-195kts @ ~40USG/hr ROP
~170-175kts @ ~28 USG/hr 50 deg LOP (this a/c has a JPI EDM-760. Yay!)

Numbers from memory. I generally was conservative with leaning ROP due to the crappy OEM engine gauges.

They're no sports car but a decent load hauler for up to 3 hour legs.

I agree that the settings are simple, its the reaching round behind you, to reach the controls down near floor level, whilst flying without an autopilot, that I was talking about

I've never found that to be an issue. My arm drops quite naturally to the fuel selectors in the Navajo. Don't even need to look at them to determine position or to move them. A Chieftain requires a slight forward lean but still easy enough. I prefer the firewall cutoff in the Chieftain compared to fiddling with the cover flap in the Navajo's design.

Tinstaafl

Fair enough - you are a much more experienced pilot than me, so that probably represents the skills gap between us.

Not necessarily. Maybe I just have longer arms!