Faa Ir
 

hi All again,

Just a couple of quick question for you guys!

Im thinking about doing my faa ir. can you please tell me if im wrong?

I do the 1 only paper exam (on a computer) over here at flight safety in farnborough before i go,

I go to the likes of florida and i have to get a full FAA PPL then i move onto my FAA IR.

once i have the licence and i fly back to england to convert and be able to fly g-reg aircraft under IFR its only 15 hours conversion with no skills test at the end?

am i right?

Not entirely.

I do the 1 only paper exam (on a computer) over here at flight safety in farnborough before i go,
Yep, that is correct (or somewhere else, not sure about FS).

I go to the likes of florida and i have to get a full FAA PPL then i move onto my FAA IR.
If you like. You don't need a "Full" FAA PPL if you don't want, but can add the IR to the FAA PPL based on your JAA PPL (or other ICAO PPL)

once i have the licence and i fly back to england to convert and be able to fly g-reg aircraft under IFR its only 15 hours conversion with no skills test at the end?
Nope. You must also complete and pass the JAA IR ground school and exams (£1000+ and lots of work). You then need to do a minimum of 15 hrs training (note: minimum) and fly the JAA IR skills test and pass. Depending on how you have been taught in the US makes a big difference to the "minimum".

Not wrong :)

Fine, and get the FAA Class 2/3 medical too.

Fine.

No, it's much more complicated than that.

If you want to fly a G-reg plane on an FAA PPL/IR you can do so but while VFR you can fly worldwide (ref: ANO Art 26) your IFR privileges will be limited to Class F/G airspace which is practically useless.

To convert an ICAO (e.g. FAA) IR to a JAA IR you will need to

- get a JAA PPL (there is a conversion route from an FAA PPL to a JAA PPL, with a concession if you have 100hrs TT (ref: LASORS) )

- CAA Class 2 medical with the Class 1 audiogram

- do a min 15hrs flying training and pass the CAA IR checkride

- sit all the JAA PPL/IR exams, 7 of them, at CAA Gatwick

This has been done to death here recently, a week or two ago, but basically if you only ever want to fly G-reg the FAA IR does not make sense unless you want to follow a route which is actually quite common among experienced UK pilots but probably not common for someone new to flying (which is what you sound like):

- do the UK PPL
- do the UK PPL night qualification, including the extra requirements of the FAA PPL night flying
- do the UK IMC Rating
- do the FAA PPL, using the UK PPL training as a credit (takes just a few hours' flying, normally, plus FAA medical plus 1 exam)
- do the FAA IR, using the UK IMCR training as a credit (takes maybe 20-30hrs' flying, plus one exam)
- do the JAA IR, using the ICAO IR as a credit (reduces the min training hrs from 50 to 15) which is 7 exams and a checkride

As I say, a lot depends on where you are starting. I have sent you a PM or email.

thanks guys. Im english and aleady have my JAA PPL. i also have my night rating.

My log book is upto 125 hours now. i only passed in march this year on 45 hours...

as i understood it. if i get an FAA IR And want to convert to a JAA IR then its 15hours of training MIN and that i DONT have to do the 7 exams! i read that somewhere but cant find where!

thanks

That should be the case but regretably you will have to do all the exams. What should be the case is a differences exam to cover differences between the FAA and JAA airspace but not all the exams and converting a CPL or ATP should equally be based on a differences course and not the whole exams.

But it will never happen as there are too many self interest bodies involved, too much terratorialism, burocracy, protectionism. Not much to do with flying or flight safety but coming up against a brick wall of stupid legislation and intractability.

Pace

The only credit one gets on the JAA exam side of things is that the holder of an ICAO IR may not have to attend the JAA IR mandatory ground school (classroom). It is at the "discretion" of the head of the school. This means you can self study, and just turn up at Gatwick and sit the exams. There is a valid strategy which does work for clever pilots who already know the practical stuff: swat a bit, sit all the exams in one go, and then revise seriously for those which you failed and re-take them. This won't work for "ab initio IR" pilots because most of the study material is totally alien stuff to a pure PPL.

Pace is right but we live with European elitism, protectionism, and gold plating.

If you are converting your FAA IR to a UK IMCR then you don't need to take the exam associated with the IMCR, but you most certainly do have to do all the exams if you want an IR.

From someone who has been there, and done that!

I don't think you are actually "converting" the FAA IR to a IMCR.

What happens is that you send the evidence of your FAA IR, plus the recent IPC signoff, and a cheque for about £60, to the CAA, and they stick an IMCR onto your UK PPL, but that IMCR is valid only as long as your FAA IR is valid and within the IPC deadline of 2 years.

Or do you actually get a standalone IMCR this way, which you can renew with an IMCR checkride, and allow the FAA IR to lapse?

In that case i think i will just do a JAA IR and it looks like i will have to sit in a classroom for 6 months! Nevermind. i thought the main advantage would be to skip the classroom and the 7 exams!

could i use my own aircraft to do IR training over here in the uk?

Its a piper warrior PA28-161 FM imune?

could i use my own aircraft to do IR training over here in the uk?

If you plan to do the IR in the UK, I strongly recommend you do it in a twin. The initial rating is pretty tough to get, you don't want to limit it's usefulness by having it for SEP only.

but im only ever going to be flying singles! and i also am not going to do the CPL/ATPL!

Its for private use and to do alot of european touring! so let me get this straight. if i do an FAA IR and come to england i can fly any N-REG aircraft in imcr conditions anywhere in the world?

Another big subject. ALL ICAO training, done in any aircraft, any reg aircraft, is allowable towards any FAA license/rating. The catch is the checkride, for which the European options are seriously limited. This is why one may as well head for the USA.

But if one is anyway receiving training here, may as well do it in such a way that it counts towards the FAA stuff. For example do a 250nm airways flight in the IMCR training, will also count as the airways flight in the FAA IR. And structuring the Night Qualification training towards the FAA PPL too, etc.

It depends on the equipment fitted.

As regards twin flying, twins cost at least 2x more to operate than singles and in general do not go any quicker. IR training in a twin costs a lot more. It all depends on one's budget but I think the days of piston twins are over - certainly avgas ones.

As regards twin flying, twins cost at least 2x more to operate than singles and in general do not go any quicker

I was factoring in the value of someone's time doing it all as well. At just 22 years old I wouldn't be so sure about what the future holds and limit yourself in this way.

One of my own biggest regrets was sitting the CPL exams as I wanted to get a licence more quickly only to have to go back and do the (slightly) harder ATPL stuff all over again a couple of years later.

22 years old

Oops, just saw that's his post count, not age, but anyone under, say, 30 would apply!

lol. as it happens i am actually 22 years old!

Yes, you get a standalone IMCr.

Quite handy really, if the FAA IR has "lapsed" due to currency (no approaches etc. for 6 months) you could renew it yourself using the IMCr to shoot the approaches.

The IMCr expires in the normal way though and needs to be renewed either by IMCr renewal flight with CAA examiner or FAA IPC with FAA instructor. In the case of the latter you need to reapply for the rating from the CAA (and send them another fee).

Regarding the FAA IR requirements for a minute: One that someone with 125hrs *may* fall short of is the X/C requirement - You need to have 50 hrs PIC cross country, where cross country is defined as > 50nm - so Compton Abbas to Old Sarum doesn't count.

not wishing to ask dumb questions but ... :)

If this is 39nm in each direction with a land away, does that count? Or does each sector have to be > 50nm ?

Also ... does this have to be in a straight line, or is there "tolerance" for going around obstacles such as the LTN, LGW and London Heathrow/City zones?

For example, if I plot EGLD -> EGTH it is roughly 30 miles direct, but 55 miles going through the EGTC overhead ... (but then I guess if the answer to the first question is "no it is the total distance flown in the day, not each sector that has to be over 50nm" then this is a mute point (at least for me)

Jon

jmorby, the FAR/AIM 61.1 (3)(ii)(b) definition of cross country time is: "That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight line distance of more than 50nm from the original point of departure".

Sorry, if I have missed something. The obvious thing to me would be to get an FAA IR along with an FAA PPL (or CPL for that matter) and then put my aircraft on the N-register. No doubt many will warn you of the potential future hazards in taking this route, but the actual hazards today seem to be pretty low. In the meantime, you will be free to fly all over the world in IMC. Have Fun!!

Couldn't agree more!! That's what I did (CPL/IR).

It's just very complicated (or impossible) to arrange the FAA checkride in Europe, so some time off and off to the USA is the best way.

I have looked into this exact point this week and believe the FAA IR Checkride can fairly easily be done in europe unless I got the wrong end of the stick, anyone any experience with www.rnav.us it would suit me perfectly to do at Le Touquet.

Also any tips on the best way to prepare for the written IR test?