Starting a DC3.
 

I watched the carb heat thread with fascination as it evolved into a pissing match that ended in the inevitable locked thread.

So lets see who can describe how to wrap a rope around the prop dome of a DC3 to get it started if the starter or battery has failed.

Be descriptive so we will be able to visualize the correct method as we do not want the rope to slip and not rotate the engine.

I am aware that this is maybe just a tad out of the realm of private pilots.....but there are some true experts on here who I bet will see this as a new soap box from which to rail the crowd. :E

Does wrapping a rope around the prop dome (you mean that spinner-type thing which houses the CS hardware?) really give you enough leverage to turn the prop, without damaging the dome? And how many revolutions of the prop should you reasonably be able to expect before the engine catches?

Oh, and is this with passengers watching, so do you have to keep your cool and look like you know what you're doing, or not?

I normally just use the wife's bra. We always hand swing our DC3, it's the way real men do it, starter motors are for girls blouses......

I think that we are all missing the point here.
The real question surely is...

Do you have the carb heat applied for the said rope starting procedure?:bored:

The dome is the part that contains the gears that twist the blades and it can be used to wrap a rope around as a method of starting the engine.


really give you enough leverage to turn the prop, without damaging the dome?

You would need a sledge hammer to damage the dome.


And how many revolutions of the prop should you reasonably be able to expect before the engine catches?

That depends on a lot of factors such as temperature and how you have primed it.


Oh, and is this with passengers watching, so do you have to keep your cool and look like you know what you're doing, or not?

In cases where you use this method to start one the last thing on your mind is what the passengers think.

By the way a snow machine makes for less work in the starting process....now lets let the experts have a go at this. :E

Sometimes we don't have time to go through a thread and delete individual posts. This was the case with that thread, just had enough time to have a quick look and close it. Later on when I have time I will have another look and do some gardening and re-open it.

Chuck not sure what you want the experts to have a go at?

Clearly describe the best method of wrapping the rope on the dome so as to have minimum slip when pulling on said rope to turn the engine over. :ok:

Why waste your time, with the fabled rope start, when all you have to do is grab the cranking handle from the flight deck, to wind up the inertia starter, port eng, inbd side, aft of gills, if i remember G-AMPO, was fitted with this system, and yes i used it in anger.

Nay, come on, let the armchair amateurs have a go first. (That would be me then... I've never hand-swung an engine, let alone use external machinery to start an engine.)

I'd wrap the rope around the dome maybe six times or so, obviously in the direction you want the prop to turn, and making sure that the second, third turn and so on are all over the bit of rope from the first turn so that the rope is stuck on for the first few turns by friction alone, but comes loose automatically later on. (You do NOT want the rope to stay on with the engine catching, so no knots - although first picture of a snowplough twisted around the prop would be worth something too.)

Then do the pre-engine start things as usual, including suitable priming for the climate (if there's a snowplough involved, I somehow don't think we're talking tropical climate here). At the time where you would normally engage the starter, tell the snowplough to rev it. The snowplough is of course attached to the other end of the rope, probably with a quick-release knot or a man with an axe standing by (or both), and runs sideways away from the plane, just a little forward of the prop arc, so that the rope doesn't get caught in the blades.

Most likely you'll try with about six turns or so around the hub first. Three to create enough friction so the rope doesn't slip straight away, and three to rev the engine to starting speed. If that doesn't work, gradually increase the number of turns around the hub.

It's no different from hand starting an outboard motor, really. Just a tiny bit bigger.

Chuck

Personally I would not have a clue :) and wouldnt really care as will never get to fly one anyway ;( finally sounds like too much effort! A jet is a lot easier you just press a button loads of great sounds and it does it all for you :)

Pace

How about? A knot on the rope layed on the hub, once round the root of a blade then about four turns round the hub (trapping the knotted end). The other end of the rope wrapped round the snowploughs winch and off you go like starting a small outboard.
For your personal safety get some other fool to operate the winch.
DO.

Why do you refer to it as the " fabled rope start " BISH-BASH-BOSH?

Are you saying it will not work?

I could not use the rope method to start. The propellers (if turned) will not turn over the engines.

I did look around yesterday for carb heat controls in it, but there are none.

To start, I check the area, push a nice little button, watch a bunch of instruments, and when one says 16%, put the fuel on.

Pilot DAR

When we were flying the Berlin Airlift we came across some gorillas that had escaped from a local zoo,they had in fact been performers in a travelling circus and were usewd to performing unusual acts..
With a lot of patience and even more bananas we trained them to form a chain and hand swing the props.
We could never train them to move away once the engine started so we quickly ran out of this resource.
;)

Christ! G-EMMA. You've got me believing that's in the manual!
DO.

I've never been involved with 1830 rope starting but I've heard a few bar tales about it being done by our pilots (this is going back a few years; I've forgotten the technique). Nothing that couldn't be solved after a bit of experimentation. Probably a short fore and aft lay on the dome followed by rotational wraps. I'm not so sure that it would be a good idea to wrap the rope around a blade root!
I haven't seen inertia starters and their associated hand-starting gear on Daks for many years - they all seem to have direct drive units now. Shame - it used to be quite satisfying to start one single-handed

I don't think I have ever seen a DC-3 being rope swung but I did witness (on two occasions) a C-46 at Salalah successfully having an engine started using a piece of sacking, a long rope and six locals exiting stage right as fast as they could go.

If I remember correctly the C-46 had R2800s so they were a tad larger than the R1830s in the DC-3.

G-EMMA's method
http://www.douglasdc3.com/prop/proprope.gif

Rest of it's on this page.

Chuck's method is alluded to on this page.

Loads of great sounds? From a Jet??? Come on now, impressive they might be, but no Jet or Turbofan will ever sound remotely as good as a big piston engine at full whack. And older jets didn't have the luxury of FADEC, so there's a bit more than just pushing a button and letting it do it all for you.

As to the original question, I'm sure I've seen film of a Gloster Gladiator or similar being "Hand Swung" at Old Warden by several guys forming a human chain - one poor sod had to hold the prop blade with one arm whilst the others were trying to pull him apart with his other arm!

And.... if you want to get into a p!ssing contest, here is from my Bro, ex Sharjah, Ballykelly etc etc

Sandbagging a Shackleton.

Take one Avro (beautiful, British name) and a dead battery.

Rope, sandbags, willing - other ranks - and some guile.

Set........... Contact........... Let Go !

click, whirrrr, clunk, clunk, bang, po, pop, bang - repeat......

It started, well f%*k me !

:ok: