France trip info!!!
Next week i am flying to le touquet from fairoaks and i was wondering .... once im in le touquet am i alloud to fly out of there into another french airport. a smaller, Quieter one with a better local town for food and in general a great day out. then leave the smaller airport bound for the uk? any info would be great. thanks.
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I'm planning to fly to France in the summer, so have been looking for resources to forewarn me of any problems. The Fly in France site was written by a native Frenchman, and seems to have lots of useful information. You could try asking your question there.
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I've been flying to France for over ten years. As far as I am aware, you have to enter and leave France via a designated airport such as Le Touquet, Caen, Deauville, Calais, Dinard etc. Some of these fields need notice and the notice periods can vary according to the time/day of week.
As with everything in aviation, someone will be along in a minute with a different view. In case you don't know, there is lots of useful info here http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm and if you sign up here with Olivia you can file your FPL for coming home before you leave. http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv....et_uk.asp?m=14 |
The general rule for Schengenland is: you have to arrive via a customs/immigration airfield. Once inside, you are free to fly anywhere within the Schengen area.
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3Y is right. This catches out a lot of UK pilots because the UK is almost unique in having no exit Customs. As far as Customs/Immigration goes, you can leave the UK from any farm strip without any notice. This doesn't work elsewhere in Europe - even if it appears to not be enforced (obviously, they can't get you once you've left, and they would have to run a database of all pilots who did it so they can get him next time he visits, and much of the time his name is not known).
The other thing is that if going to NON international airfields (basically, this means NON Customs airfields) you have to speak the local language as there is no requirement for anybody there to speak English. I can't speak any French so I fly only to international airports there. |
This doesn't work elsewhere in Europe |
The 15 Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. All these countries except Norway and Iceland are European Union members.
Whilst there is free movement of goods within the EU, I guess there would be "customs" issues if not "Immigration" issues if going to Norway and Iceland. More info here http://www.eurovisa.info/BackgroundInfo.htm (I think IO540 meant that it wouldn't work to leave the Schengen area from a farmstrip) |
do the french realy care what aieport you leave from?
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3Y, actually a few more have recently joined (Eastern Europe). Please note I was referring to flights within the Schengen area, which would most likely cover the majority of European touring.
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The 15 Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. All these countries except Norway and Iceland are European Union members. A notable case to watch is Croatia - a very beautiful country with fantastic GA facilities (lovely little islands with Customs and avgas at 50p/litre) and totally relaxed ATC but not in Schengen and not in the EU! Arriving in the EU from Croatia, you may as well be coming from Iraq. do the french realy care what aieport you leave from? Obviously you could just depart from some unmanned farm strip but you have committed a crime and next time you go there they might want to talk to you. I've never heard of this happening though. |
Following on ....
Planning a trip to southwest France and looking at options of staging through Alderney.
Any advice on best places to get fuel ? Either in the Channel Islands - I hear Guernsey is 99p a litre at the moment.... or in northwest France. With the strength of the euro at the moment I think my eyes might be watering a bit .. Any experiences in the La Rochelle, Quiberon areas ? Or of visiting the islands at Belle Isle or Ile d'Yeu ? And lastly ... transponders .. I understand they are not mandated in France .. yet ? |
La Rochelle is a really nice town to visit - highly recommended.
The ATCO (I recall) was a short tempered b*stard though, asking me to route to some VRP (I was VFR then) which didn't exist on the chart; none of the other pilots parked there could find it either. Maybe this was a one-off. VRPs are one of the little hassles in foreign flying... The only downside of routing via the Channel Islands (and their cheaper avgas) is that you need to give 12hrs notice to Special Branch, and they do enforce this with all the arrogant aggression you may expect from a copper :) |
do the french realy care what aieport you leave from? Try it and let us know how you get on.............................. or where to visit you, I'll bring a baguette with a file in it:} |
Obviously you could just depart [France] from some unmanned farm strip The other thing is that if going to NON international airfields (basically, this means NON Customs airfields) you have to speak the local language LANGUAGES TO BE USED Air traffic services messages can be transmitted in French or in English unless “Fr only” appears on the aerodrome charts; when it does only the French must be used. However French pilots must use the French language except for training requirements. Note: the abbreviation “Fr only” is systematically indicated when the aerodrome is open to IFR traffic when there is no traffic services organism I notice, btw, that the "Fr seulement" bit seems to have disappeared from many of the VACs which used to have it (in fact, can't find a single one just now)--whether it's a misprint or something else I don't know. transponders .. I understand they are not mandated in France Arriving in the EU from Croatia, you may as well be coming from Iraq. But digressions apart, I recommend you order the very useful VFR guide, which is only about £25.- including one mill charts and a couple other bits. I also second the Fly in France recommendation for practical info not found in the official docs, or just speak to the natives once there. The GA community in France is big and enthusiastic and they will usually be happy to offer advice (even to an Englishman :}) |
I notice, btw, that the "Fr seulement" bit seems to have disappeared from many of the VACs which used to have it (in fact, can't find a single one just now)--whether it's a misprint or something else I don't know. Some airfields have AFIS in English/French but state French only when the FISO isn't there - LFQA and LFQB for example. Watch out for this if you plan to arrive at lunch time (which could be two hours). |
they don't mention it (123.5) is French only (that's probably stated elsewhere in the AIP). I'm not disputing what you're saying, btw, just a tad mystified by what appear to be the latest editorial changes. I was also under the impression that the bit about "French to French, speak French" had disappeared from the regs some time ago, and all of a sudden it pops back in in an official publication. Utterly confusing to me. Anyway, back to the subject, which I actually forgot to answer in my previous: once im in le touquet am i alloud to fly out of there into another french airport then leave the smaller airport bound for the uk? Having said all that, best thing to do is call the French and ask them about your specific plans. Here's some telephone numbers: BRIA Lille: +33 (0)3 20 16 19 65/66 BRIA Nantes: +33 (0)2 40 84 84 75 / +33 (0)2 40 84 80 45 Don't be afraid to ask. They all understand English perfectly well, btw (although depending on the day they may not feel like speaking it so you end up having a bilingual conversation :E) |
There is the small detail of your flight plan, which is compulsory as you'll be crossing an international border, being rejected due to your departure airfield being non-customs In general you can file a FP without regard for Customs and PPR. Often, down to Greece etc, one files as an alternate an airfield which is military only, or one which is long PPR or no avgas. Other than some nice person trying to help you, there is absolutely no mechanism for checking FPs for this kind of thing (VFR or IFR). |
Some French airports do not have customs present, but can arrange for you. I just give the airfield a call a day or two before and they arrange it.
Dieppe has this arrangement and the man in the tower there couldn't be more helpful. So it may be worth enquiring if you particularly want to go somewhere. ZA |
It would be a very attentive person indeed to spot that. if you file a flight plan via some remote facility Matter of fact, I get the impression that there must have been more than one instance of people flying between two non-custom airfields in these two countries, out of ignorance if nothing else. It's not like this stuff is properly covered on the PPL books, to my recollection. |
I am sure it happens, LH2, if only from reading pilot forums :)
Re being stopped from departure by the tower, that could happen because the tower receives a copy of the FP (and in the case of a VFR one the destination also, and not much in between). So, the tower will see your FP destination even if you don't advertise it. |
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