Just one question for those who have done this before....when I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving; she said no, just book out at Thruxton (my departure airfield) I took that to mean just the normal thing one would do for any flight....but then I wondered...is there something else?

Reason I ask is that my experience of really big airports is only in the US....and there you just turn up (and ask for 10 ILS approaches or whatever takes your facy that day ;))....

When I did it, I asked Interflight which frequency they would expect me to call them on first as I believe there are several, approach, director etc.

I was inbound to Gatwick all the way from Shoreham. I called the freq Interflight had given me. To be honest the controller was a bit confused at first because I guess most of her traffic is handed on from an approach controller. Anyway after a couple of seconds she must have found my details, 'cos it all turned out ok.

Anyway listen to the ATIS, I'm sure it will say something like report Information "xxxx" and aircraft type on first contact. Then add G-XXXX inbound from Thruxton.... The controller will tell you "radar vectors to the ILS rwy XX.


In true Pprune form, I wait to be corrected!

Thanks Three Yellows....that all sounds right to me. I was going to call on 126.825 first (having got ATIS) which according to the AIP is callsign 'Director'.

And my office window was in the building that you can see just behind the aircraft. Even better view from there! ...but not as good as the view from my other 'office' window, a yellow Land Rover Discovery with a big No.1 on the door. Them was the days.

The OddOne

Sounds about right.

I'm sure you will enjoy it. One of the funniest things when I did it was the following exchange when I was about three miles out.

TWR " Speedbird XXX, after the next landing PA28 line up"


Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?@!**??!@?"


Look forward to hearing all about it when you get back. Are you going for a reason or just a £400 bacon roll (The LGW fees being 50p and the overpriced BAA Bacon roll being £395.50)

I'm going to get my logbook from the :mad: CAA.

Sounds classic, the logbook is more of an excuse (to myself) than a reason.

Groundloop at Gatwick
 

Hoodie said:

Yup, you're quite right it was in 1990. The late, great Roy Castle was attempting to break the wingwalking World record by flying from Gatwick to Paris atop Vic Norman's Stearman. Off went Roy to be followed by the Jodel, which did as described above and the incident did indeed black these sorts of 'fun' activities from LGW. Glad I was off duty that day. As Ops staff, we were always keen to support such adventures, but Snr Mgmt took a dim view to the airport being shut for 3 hours. I never landed at Gatwick during my career there, but I did manage to get down to 50' in a 172, paid for by the Company, when we were evaluating a new track keeping system. I was under pain of death or dismissal not to touch the runway, such was politics around GA at the time.

We'd pull out all the stops to help anyone that needed it, but woe betide anyone who 'arrived' without a slot. Stick to the rules and you can get a lot!

The OddOne

Perhaps a full flightplan? I know formally it's not required, but it may help you "get in the system" easier.

Nope they do not need a flight plan if VFR. Just do your normal thing at base and turn up. You are paying a significant amount of money for the handling agent to make sure everything goes smoothly. And if it does not make your you complain vociferously. I have had free handling on return visits at a couple of other places after complaining. Edinburgh charged me £114 quid for handling not to mention the landing fees etc. and why I asked for a taxi told me to call my own! I wrote to the MD of midwest pointing out I use them a lot and got a large credit.

Lucky fellows you are over there. Here in the Netherlands, a flightplan is required when flying in or out of any controlled airport, even VFR, even if all you want to do is a few circuits. For us, based at Rotterdam, that means always. In fact, I get confused when flying from one uncontrolled field to another and not having to file a plan. Occupational hazard I guess.;)

I will indeed complain if its not smooth....certainly since having been flying in the US, where I got stuck overnight at Gainesville once due to a major thunderstorm the FBO delt with everything for free (which I admit is GA in America for you :ok:), I take a very dim view of people who take your money and then don't deliver.

"I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving"

Your bank manager?;)
SB

Should a pilot without IMCR or IR accept a "Radar vectors for the ILS" in Class D (assuming VMC)? Once accepted, ATC will expect the approach to be flown to IR standards which could be a challenge, even in good VMC. I know that you cannot (legally) accept an IFR clearance in most of Europe, but what about UK?

Personally I would have asked for a visual join, prior to getting my IMCR. Come to think of it, even now I couldn't accept as I don't have a glideslope in the aircraft.:(

Well, you have a point of course.

When I was not IMCR Rated and conscious that I would be flying very near the Belgrano, my reply to "expect radar vectors to the ILS" was that I was VFR, but could accept radar vectors. Isn't flying a heading given to you by a controller part of the basic PPL?

Luckily it was CAVOK. I was rather assuming that the controller's reply to my intial call, " expect radar vectors to the ILS" was a knee jerk reaction on her part as that's what she says to 99.9999% of aircraft.


I'll get me coat.

If you're inbound to Gatwick VFR the last thing you should be given is vectors on to the ILS. Tell ATC you can't do that if they suggest it again!

Why oh why do they over control in such ways? :ugh:

You should just be told to position for a left or right base join then held on a base until told to position number two to whatever it is you're to follow with a "caution vortex wake, recommended spacing is x miles" thrown in.

You then position yourself on final behind the traffic and, if you're sensible, you fly above the preceeding traffic's glideslope, land long and vacate.

Oh so simple...

I'm sure you are correct about the knee jerk response of the controller and any PPL should be able to fly a heading. It is intercepting and flying the ILS and reporting established etc that concerns me.

I can see a situation developing where the controller has an expectation of pilot abilities that differs from reality. Considering that a poorly executed go-around will put you in the carpark of the Belgrano it is probably not the best place to be experimenting!

I think it takes several hundred hours and a lot of experience before a PPL would 'disagree' (term used very broadly) with a controller, especially in an very very busy place like Gatwick where everyone else on the freq has 1000's of hours and an ATPL with lots of scrambled egg on their hats.

I know, because I've read it on here, that ATCOs are taught that they are not the 'policemen/women' of the sky. But that's not how it feels to a PPL in a PA28!:}

By goodness given the lenght of 07 at Gatwick it would have to be a very poorly executed go around - unless of course you were intending to land very looooooong.

Although "vectors to the ILS" may not be technically appropriate.. "Vectors to Final" certainly is appropriate.

I don't think left/right base joins at Gatwick is entirely appropriate either - I guess it's easy for a tower controller to plan departures around an aeroplane a few miles out on final.. than one flying in circles on base leg.

Gatwick is a regular stop for me, both fixed wing and rotary. Usually VFR in the rotary, and the routine is hold at the North Terminal, and then land after whichever sky darkening piece of alloy has just touched down. Sadly they then make us follow A lumbering line of jumbos to a hold for a runway departure. They just can't get the idea that all I need is somewhere reasonably flat and a route nothbound away from the approach/departure path, which is pretty much what Heathrow provides. IFR in the rotary just involves flying the approach a bit quicker, the fixed wing is simplicity itself, either me or p2 flying and a sweetly fragranced hostie bringing tea and complaints from the pax!

If you are unsure what to do when asked for or given headings etc then take an instructor with you. Neither ATC or the crews operating CAT will thank you if you are on a teach yourself experience. ATC will be expecting a level of competence, not sudden curved balls. Have the radios set up and the frequencies listed where you can see them. Be prepared to do what you are told when you are told to. Frequencies can be bloody busy, be concise and give what is needed, not your inside leg measurement or what your granny had for breakfast. Enjoy it. The whole process of flying should be fun, the fun can stop when you get an earbashing from a frazzled ATCO for messing up his flow, or a sarky snap from a CAT pilot who is knackered having just flown halfway round the world, been up all night and just wants to get home, shower and sleep.

In fact thinking about it, I don't have a flight sim programme on my PC so I'm not sure whether this idea is worth it, try flying the trip on your PC before doing it for real. Not for nothing does EGKK appear on the military aircrew humour chart as "Shark Infested Custard!"

Have fun. I hope I'm there when you go. We use the same agent, and could grab coffee. I would love to see more GA using major airports.

VH

Verticalhold,

I am sure what you say goes for any flying, not just for LGW. Always be prepared, always have the next freq dialled up, don't faff about on the radio when its clearly busy etc etc.

I think what the original poster asked was "how was Gatwick" not how should I be a more professional PPL.

It is a sad fact of life that the people who make the rules are not allowed to apply common sense all the time. The ATCOs would like nothing more than to allow you to use a spare, flat bit of concrete (or grass) to get in and out without bothering the big boys. Unfortunately they have to follow the rules set by the airport, who in turn have to justify their rules to the CAA/HSE. This means that almost all of the flexibility of a Heli is lost and delays for all involved.

Well I did it. Departured Thruxton at 0940 and arrived at the MID VOR about 25 minutes later. Having taken off VFR I then entered IMC with a RIS from Farnborough and then made contact with Gatwick Director just west of the MID VOR. I was then given a climb to 3000ft inside controlled airspace and told to proceed to the MAY VOR. Once well downwind of runway 26L I was given vectors for the ILS (I have an IMC rating). The clouds were pretty turbulent as I descended on the ILS and I broke through at about 1200ft.

I was now on finals for the world's busiest single runway airport.

Airliners were everywhere and as I vacated the runway I was given stand 142L. Then came the best moment:

Ground: G-KT proceed direct to stand 142L on J, the BA 737 on you left will give way to you.

Me: Taxi stand 142L on J G-KT

Ground: Speedbird xxx hold postion....give way to the cherokee on your right.

On stand and car from Interflight comes to greet me...takes me to the "General Aviation terminal" (which is a little portacabin next to the South Terminal).

The inbound flight was not too bad actually...ILS approach wasn't perfect...but then its always difficult in turbulent cloud.

Departure was a VFR depature to the NW from runway 26L...while sitting in the take off queue I could feel the aircraft shaking a bit from the jet blast coming from the plane in front of me, but I kept my distance.

Overall it was worth it...sitting on the apron next to a 747 was brilliant and the contollers (especially ground) were really nice. :ok:
Some pictures:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../DSCN00072.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../DSCN00122.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../DSCN00132.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../DSCN00162.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../DSCN00192.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...y/DSCN0029.jpg

Thank you again for all your comments...and by the way the bill was as follows:

Landing fee: £418+ £73.15 VAT
Parking for 3 1/2 hours: £50.93+ £8.91 VAT
Passenger charge: £110+ £19.25 VAT
Nav charge: £10+ £1.75 VAT
Handling: £155+ £27.13 VAT

Total: £874.12

I am NOT doing this again.

Well done! I'm sure that was worth every penny! :ok:

I hope you remembered to visit the CAA for your license - easy to forget why you went there amidst all the excitement. ;)

SD

Well done indeed and a great set of pictures, how you managed to do that and take pictures!

Standby for the incoming flak regarding your climb into Controlled airspace. I can just imagine all the comments about was it A or D. Can't go IMC in A. (I'm not having a go, but I'd take that bit out!).

As for the radios, I had that problem when we had our Victorian radios, however I subsequently discovered that one of the two does go to 136, so worth checking.

As for the price, wow that's gone up a lot in a couple of years. I am guessing that was off peak too. I also guess that they are saying that they don't want you.

Anyway, well done!:D

I know, I know....Gatwick CTR extends from the surface to 2500ft and is class D. So 3000ft does put me in the class A LTMA. The controller did say: "now cleared SVFR" and I was in good VMC on top....a little bit naughty := but it was such a relief after bouncing in and out of cloud.

Shame you can only be SVFR inside a CTR - not a CTA or TMA

Can, worms, open!

Also - you have a PM.

Excellent! Thanks for the report. I have to say, the bill is even higher than I expected. Did you have a passenger or was the passenger fee for yourself? I would have thought aircrew would be exempt.

If anyone here is tempted to try something similar (I am), can I suggest that it would be cheaper overall to fly to the US and do it there! San Diego International is the 2nd busiest single runway airport in the world (after Gatwick) and charge a total fee of $25. The locals think this is daylight robbery, since most airports are free.

Well done contacttower!!! I was keeping an eye out for you to the east from my office at Virgin Atlantic but didn't see you arrive. I should have taken my radio scanner with me.

Enjoyed the build up in the PPRuNe forum ahead of your trip, and I'm sure the £900 was worth it. Enjoy your trip to South Africa (my hometown is Cape Town)

Great photos too. :ok:

Nik

Thanks very much for posting this. It's been a great read!:D

Crazy pricing
 

Coming from the other side of the pond, this kind of pricing is mind bending. Over $1,600 for a landing, departure and a bit of parking is just daylight robbery. In the last 2 weekends I flew IFR into Houston Hobby and Dallas Love, both of them extremely busy Bravo airspace and very busy airports (Love is the home of Southwest). In both cases here there was no landing fee, no tie down fee (if fuel was purchased), no land slots, and no passenger collection fees, and a "You're as welcome as a SW 737" attitude.

Point being that I know things are different here, but the UK pricing is designed for one thing - to keep GA riff-raff out, and in no way represents the level of service provided or the costs to render that service.

I just shake my head and wonder how anyone can afford to fly anything other than FSX in the UK/Europe.

Regards from TX

KGTU 011948Z 29003KT 10SM CLR 23/09 A3013

Nice one and very impressive... Im off to San Francisco this weekend with work and I might just have to try San Francisco International whilst I am there (I have booked the whole Sunday up in the air)

BTW - Thruxton is my home field too.... :)

Steve M

There's a picture I took of San Francisco International from a C172 on the flying album thread.

Simon laughed a lot when I told him how much it had cost!

Do they charge per landing or per attempt at the rwy so to speak cause if so £874 aint bad if you land at the numbers to 5 touch and gos in one landing and then vacate at last taxiway.
Dave:}

Fork that!

I think I'll do LAX tomorrow for $20, and save the £800 for two further trips out here;)

light aircraft (gatwick)
 

Flew a Comper Swift out of there in 82 (non Radio) off a service road past the tower (much waving from above)
Prob a one off !!!

Be Careful, you'll get addicted to big airports now. A couple of my GA flying mates are trying to get all the major European airports in their logbooks. If their wives ever find out the cost there will be mysterious deaths.

VH



wonder if I could get my Xair into LHR?

Well done, I was just waiting to push when I saw you at the hold behind the BA 73, I asked delivery about you, he did say must have have more money than sense!! Hope you enjoyed it.

Should fit quite nicely into an A380 freighter ;)

£800+ for a landing is ridiculous, and obviously charged primarily as a deterrent to widespread use by GA. I wonder how much Polly Vacher was charged?