Go for it!!!
 

Cubs are a blast!!!! Ive flowen the Super cub 150hp and also a 180hp club which I use for glider towing, it also is the "pregnant" cub with the two seats in the rear. Side by side.

The 180hp is a blast to fly. If I have not flowen it for a week or 2 I just have to get in one and go for a play. The pregnant cub also is more cumfy as the body is slightly wider and me being 6 ft 3 inches gives me a bit more room for my shoulders.

Nothing beats rolling down the runway in a good x-wind and holding it on the deck with the into wind wing right down near the ground keep you straight. A lot of fun

Hope you enjoy them as much!!

Arps

I guess that question's directed at me?

Yes, it was at White Waltham. Took (from memory) about 4 or 5 hours to get signed off initially - but that was only very basic, just on grass, and 3-pointers only. I then went to America, and the school I rented the Super Cub from there wouldn't sign me off on it until I mastered wheel-landings on tarmac in 20kt x-winds - which took another 8 hours, but was some of the best flying instruction I've ever received!

FFF
-----------------

Cheers
So after sign-off WW will only permit solo hire to/from grass strips? - tarmac ldgs will require extra hrs?

Starbuck

Like all things it depends on your abilities. Probably worth A tarmac trip dual just to see the differences. Like all things it depends on the person being trained. 8 hours just doing tarmac and cross winds sounds overkill to me. There is a huge amount of rubbish talked about tailwheel. Just do it, and have fun. lots of experienced instructors on the cub. At Waltham use JC, BH or a wider-body instructor!!

All the best

Wide

Got my t/d checkout on tarmac.

One thing to watch out for in the winter is ice patches. The X-wind can start drifting you sideways and then one main grabs pavement while the other one is still on ice:uhoh:

All snow is OK, except you might not get the tailwheel unlocked when it's time to turn:\

And wheel-landings in that time, too.

I guess it depends on the individual. For me - a pilot of average ability with around 60 hours (as I had then) - it was very necessary. I was really struggling with wheel-landings after 5 or 6 hours of working on them.

At the time, it didn't seem like overkill at all - and looking back on it now, my opinion hasn't changed. But I'd like to think that if my tail-wheel experience could be completely erased and I had to do it all again, but with nearly a couple of thousand hours behind me, it would take far less than 8 hours!

FFF
------------------

FFF
I would like to think that in 13 hours a qualified pilot would be able to master, the rudiments. I know that students have different learning curves, but we are not talking about students here. starbuck is a qualified PPL and to be honest the tailwheel element is not a big deal. There is to much macho BS talked about it. We are not talking about mastering the beast ( I still can not after a few thousand hours tailwheel).

It does depend on the instructor and student continuation; but unless the student is of poor quality 13 hours would be a good target for a First solo. This is teaching wheelers and three pointers. That is from 0 hours!!!!

There is a lot of Bollox, written about tailwheel flying. The most important thing for any new student is to have confidence in what they are about to do. And mostly be prepared for serious fun.

Regards to all

Wide

Wide Body.

I know the school FFF is talking about reasonably well.

They will solo you from zero hour in a taildragger in about the same time as in a spamcan but obviously the wind has to be acceptable.

What they aim to do before they sign you off is get you to a level where they are happy for you to take their supercub anywhere within the range in the tanks. Within that distance is a > 12000 ft high mountain and fields with summer DAs close to 10,000 ft. Nasty winds are common.

They also make you have a check out with an instructor if you haven't flown the supercub in 21 days.

Other flying schools in the area will not touch a taildragger because if somebody bends one the insurance for the whole rental fleet will be pulled. It's in the States, not the UK, and they need to protect their business. However, they will also rent you an aerobatic biplane for competition, if they think you are up to it that is. Took 18 hours dual for me to get checked out for competition, maybe others could do it faster - if they could find somebody who would rent them the plane.

So a different country, and different flying from what a UK renter might want to be trained for. They are very, very good and know what they are doing.

and
Traitors!:(
They're expensive to buy, slow, use too much fuel, ugly, unsociable (tandem), have poor ground manners, ...
Need I go on? What's good about them?:sad:

As my nickname suggests, I fly Piper PA19, which is a civilized version of the L-18C. Basically a PA18 with large windows and a 95HP Rolls Royce engine.
The handling on ground is the most tricky part. You'll never go really in a straight line on tarmac, grass is better, and the takeoff roll and landing roll is hard working. Also, rudder and brake pedals are reversed to the normal cessna types. Landings are a bit different feeling due to the bungees. Besides that, I find it very much flying like a c152. My Cub has no flaps, so sideslips are often used.
I like the 19 most because I soloed in it maybe.

Flew a 135 Hp Supercub after many hours in a Vagabond.......... I was slightly disappointed , as it seemed a bit "soggy " in comparison. That said I would still love to have one for personal use........;)

Hey, WR, the "ugly" comment was there to prevent the Aeronca fraternity from joining in!

So was the "slow" comment.

So was the "unsociable" comment (apart from the Chief, of course)

So was the "poor ground manners" comment (flat underside, you know).

:} ;)

Perhaps I just like them because we're so alike.

Actually WR I retract that.

Aeroncas are better then Cubs.

But they both still have a flat underside (Clark Y, don't you know).

Any news on my bungees, JAFO?:)

Excellent posts, folks!

I can't say anything about the Super Cub, but I truly love the two Cubs that I fly out of Berlin-Tempelhof. (One is blue-silver and doesn't have a starter, the other is red and does. Both are somewhat older than I am...)

I think the wonderful idea of "summer flying" (window and/or door open, arm (or camera) hanging out etc). should also be given a mention.

And, an Always Remembered Instructor's Advise (ARIA) on how to get into this wonderful machine:
"Any method that results in you eventually sitting in it and not having damaged anything in the process, is a good one." :D

...not a Cub then?
 

DubTrub,

If the Cub/SuperCub isn't it, illuminate us with your recommendations, please?

A

DubTrub

I do remember having a bungee based discussion with you but I can't remember how it ended. Either the Oldtimers disease is getting hold or I've eaten one steak too many and got that JCB.

My little piper story, posted elsewhere in the past.


On the outskirts of Rome, nestled between the highway that circles the eternal city and the international airport of Fiumicino, is a little grass airstrip, known only to a lucky few. 400 metres of unkept grass, bordered on one side by tall trees that help mitigate the wind. In one corner a once proud Fiat G91T jet trainer mounted on a swivel acts as a wind indicator and in the small hangar next to it a little Piper Cub shares protection with a tired Morane and a flashy new RV6.

The little Piper is well worn: her paintwork is flaked, the grease on her cable joints dark, her sticks polished by the many hands that have flown her. She works for a living, flying photographic missions and towing banners over the football stadium and along the beaches. But if you ask nicely she is available for a pleasure flight in the last rays of a sunlit afternoon of early autumn.

You climb aboard and settle down, taking in her smell. You touch all her switches, making yourself at home. You push the starter and she rumbles to life, and taxi slowly down the strip to the far end, checking her brakes and trying to feel her mood. She seems happy and content, but you know her, she might decide to be cheeky and start playing around. Checks completed, no wind, tail straight, one more look to be sure the local dog hasn't decided to take a nap in the middle of the runway and you push the throttle forward.

Tail up, keep her straight, and she decides to test you, darting to the left. Pedal, maybe too much, now she wants to look right, she's in a mischievous mood. You keep her straight and float into the already golden tainted sky. You climb slowly to 800ft. You don't want to go higher, the big jets are landing just six miles away. You turn downwind: on your right you can see Rome spread below, the sunlit dome of Saint Peters, the green of the parks, the modern districts crowding the ancient part of the city.

You fly content, the little Piper purring happily. In flight, as always, she is a darling. Turn base and final. Flaps down, speed okay, just a touch of power. You keep an eye on the two tall trees at the beginning of the runway, okay, passed them, stick back, little Piper, please be good. Bounce, bounce, bounce, she definitely wants to be cheeky today, left, right, keep her straight, full power, and off we go for another circuit. On final again, this time you'll get it right. But little Piper has other ideas. Bounce, bounce, bounce, she seems to be laughing aloud as you fight to keep her under control.

You go around again, and little Piper really enjoys herself, while in a cold sweat you try to keep up with her all over the runaway. Humbled and disgusted with yourself, you line up for your final landing. Over the trees, stick back, resigned for the final humiliation. And ... she touches soft as a feather, running straight and true, slowing down towards the hangar at the far end. You can feel her smiling, she has had her fun, but she didn't want to ruin your day. And when you push her back into the hangar, her engine ticking softly, you give her a pat, happy she has chosen to be your friend.

Piper Cub
 

StarBucks my experience relates to the Super Cub (150HP) and my observations may help you a bit. I did my PPL on the PA-18 in the late 80's and have since moved on to Spam Cams but I would still fly one given the chance.
As you will know by now keeping the plane straight on the ground is one of the first challenges. I found that applying a bit of pressure to both rudder pedals at the same time and then adding extra rudder input as required solved my own problems of keeping straight whilst taxying and landing/takeoff.
The climb rate was phenomenal and at some large airports we could have been at circuit height by the end of the runway - of course that needs to be avoided.
On one flight I opened the sliding side window and accidentally knocked the rear throttle control backwards. The subsequent loss of power at 2,000' was a bit of an addrenalin injection! It was resolved by 1,950'.
I am sure that with a bit of time you will enjoy the plane a great deal.

evansB: Your post is outstanding (!)

First Super Cub flew in 1949, long before the C172 or PA28 were even a twinkle.

As most people here know, I love my 150HP Super Cub so much I get tears in my eyes just thinking about it. If you get a chance, fly one.

QDM

I'm confused!
I thought the Super Cub was 150 hp with electric start and flaps,and the Cub has 65 hp hand start,or 90hp electric start but no flaps on either model.
Is this wrong?
Lister:)

Lister

I know someone will have the definitive answer but I've flown a PA-18-95 Super Cub, so that wasn't a 150 HP.

PS Just found a share closer to home than yours and now can't afford it. :{

Isn't the C90 engine'd Supercub an L18-C, which is the military designation?

edited to say that the way I think of it, the Supercub has a cowled engine, whereas the Cub does not. I'm sure someone will show me the error of my ways...

JAFO,well done and enjoy the aircraft,where is it based?
Lister:)

No, Lister, I really can't afford it. It's a half share and, what with a few changes at the JAFO ranch, it's currently out of reach. :{

Ah well, such is life. One day. :)

Hi WR,

Yes, and I think the standard 150hp version was first offered in 1951 or thereabouts.

Superficially, yes, but in reality they are completely different aircraft apart from their common heritage and the aerofoil, which I understand dates back to the 20s.

Yes, it is wrong.The Super Cubs start at 90HP with no electrical system or flaps and go up. Some cubs have 90HP engines, but they remain cubs.

The military 90HP Super Cub is the L18, except when it is the French civilianised version, when it becomes the PA19. The civilian 90HP Super Cub is the PA18-90.

They're all great to fly. Many people swear by the 90HP and it is very economical, but it lacks the grunt to get you out of anywhere really short and you really feel the difference above 5,000 feet.

Some say that Super Cubs don't need flaps and that that is another reason why the 90HP version is better, but that isn't true. The 90HP Super Cub is a lot lighter than the larger versions and it's true it doesn't really need flaps. The larger versions are much heavier and they do need flaps. They make an enormous difference and are very effective for both lift and drag. And slipping with full flap in the 150HP version is quite an experience.

QDM

Roots Sherpa, highly modified PA-18 Super Cub,
400-hp Lycoming IO-720, 2,200-lb useful load. Regular span version, (un-clipped wing) will hold more fuel, but useful load is not increased. This is not a computer generated image. It is a real aircraft. I hope I haven't caused a cessation of discourse on the truly classic PA-18 airframe.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...ootsSherpa.jpg

The Super Cub
 

Otherwise a fairly conventional tailwheel ... however, I think the fellow who coined the phrase "the most fun you can have with your clothes on" certainly was talking about SuperCubs ...
Let's dispose of this one first. I'd suggest, from experience, that a night sky dive trumps flying a Super Cub (and yes, I have sky-dived out of a Super Cub but that was in daylight...).
Now, where were we. Oh yes. My first tail wheel flying was in a 135HP ex Dutch military Super Cub - the second was was an hour later in a Terrior (now that's what I call "character building"). Took to it very well in the end. I'd got about 18 hours P1 by then (C152) and 50 hrs dual.
Don't recall it being hard to fly but... what was different was the tail wheel ethos.
Glide approaches (no throttle against brakes as it was explained to me), low flying, gentle opening and closing the throttle, watch out for the wind turning the 'plane on the ground, holding off on landing in the three point attitude....
One thing was explained to me (it worked for two cases). Watch where things are pointing as that tells you which foot to press on the rudder.
1) The turn and bank has a pointer which points to the foot you press on the rudder to keep it in balance
2) Whichever side of the nose the propeller goes tells you which foot to press when taking off.
Other than that, Super Cubs are great fun. Haven't flown one for years now (did fly one of floats) - got sidetracked by skids rather than tail wheels and then moved onto a Cub which is only a cycle ride away.

This is what it's like to fly:

Yesterday, nice day, very wet, about 10 knots southwesterly, no-one else flying -- too muddy, but we don't care.
Haul the machine out, mud everywhere, stick the dog in the back and climb in.
Fly from the strip to home, about 10 minutes, land in one of the many fields near the house which I use, about 15% gradient, 300 yards, out of wind and across the slope.
Have a cup of tea.
Take off 11.30 with the missus, 12.10 at Bolt Head, 60 miles away. (http://www.devonstrut.co.uk/pages/ai.../bolthead.htm). Fence is acros the strip, reducing it to 400m -- irrelevant to us. Checked out River Dart on the way and circled around to watch crazy canoeists.
Walk down the hill into Salcombe for lunch. Potter about.
Back to the strip after lunch.
Low level around the coast then up to Dartmoor, Tavistock, Bude, North along coast, stop in friend's field by the coast for a pee and a breather, creating two large furrows in the process and spumes of mud over the wings and fuselage (bugger!), then Hartland and to Saunton, check out Hercules doing beach landings, open the door and take some nice pics, back along the Torridge estuary lowish level, Eggesford at 4pm and at school parents evening for 5pm.

I won't say there's nothing else you can do this in, but it sure is fun and stress-free in a Super Cub. Didn't have to talk to anybody either.

QDM

QDM

I try never to be envious of others and to wish them all the best in all that they can do but you're pushing my limits there. Sounds terrific, though. Good on ya.

:ok: :{ :ok: :{ :ok: :{ :ok:

Thanks. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.

Yah yah

Anyway, when are you going to get rid of that rag and tube thing and get a proper bush machine?

:}

Best aircraft. Very reliable,lots of power, lightweight,short take-off and landing. Great visibility below you.
I got a run up in one for fifteen minutes and i could honestly say it was one the best flights i had. Was grinning from ear to ear for the next week or so.

Commanche 260

You wound me, FD. I shall have to go to the airfield tomorrow to stroke my machine and tell her I love her.

Both glider clubs I've been in have a super cub for tow duty. Both clubs also have 1 or two pawnees, which tow a lot better than a 150/160 hp cub. But get the glider off the back of the super cub, it's a ball to fly. Climbs great, handles nice, lands short. Not terribly fast. I probably have 60 hours in type.

-- IFMU

love it
 

I've been flying a super-cub for the last few years plus a couple of aerobatic
planes. Yet, whenever I climb back into the super cub its like coming home.
They are a joy to fly and great fun if you like popping in and out of short farm strips.Enjoy.:)

I have only flown the 150horse super cub. A couple of things to remember with the cub.

One of the reasons it is a great strip machine is that its best ANGLE of climb configuration is 45kts and FULL flap. The exact approach profile, so if you get a little low or change your mind, open the throttle and you are at best angle of climb.

Another thing to remember is if you are taking passengers, remove the rear stick. I know of two Piper Cub crashes where the uneducated passenger put something in the pocket located behind the pilots seat which prevented the pilot getting full foward stick, which is required in a go around situation.

Another thing to remember which probabley wont be an issue for many, is that in extreme turbulance I have known of a couple of pilots that have been knocked unconsious due to their head hitting the tube above. So shoulder straps tight and head down.

The last thing I would like to mention is that if you have done all you Cub flying in a Cub with drum brakes and the oppurtunity presents itself to fly one with disc brakes (a modification) be very very cautious as they work alot better than the original drums.

All that said dont let it put you off, if there was only one aircraft I could fly it would be the Supercub.

The consensus among the experts is that an engine failure at best angle in a SC is not survivable at low level. This is a manoeuvre to be used only in an extreme emergency and never as a routine.