Logbook entry part day/night
 

Departed today 30 mins before official dark and landed 30 mins after. How to log? 30 mins day+30 mins night , 60min day, 60 min night?

Good question, Iv wonderd myself??

correct this way.

ya just to confirm, its 30 mins day, 30 mins at night, and total time 1hr. obviously note the departure and landing times in your logbook as well.

HB

no requirement for departure/landing times

Sorry but you are wrong, there is a requirement to log departure and arrival time for each flight. lets hope you've been doing that ahy??

click here to see it in writing

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS2005.PDF

You want to read page 48 of 608.

"Required information

The record shall contain the following information:

1. Personal details:
a. Name and address of the holder;
b. Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the logbook acted as either a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under the Air Navigation Order.

2. For each flight:
a. Name of Pilot-in-command.
b. Date (day, month, year) of flight.
c. Place and time of departure and arrival (times (UTC) to be block time).
d. Type (aeroplane make, model and variant) and registration of aeroplane.
e. SE, ME.
f. Total time of flight.
g. Accumulated total time of flight.

3. Operational conditions:
a. Night
b. IFR

4. Particulars of any test or examination
undertaken whilst in flight.

Better ammend your logbook?

HB

>Better ammend your logbook?<

Which one ? 8,7,6.............?

I think you'll find it's not a legal requirement;
my logbooks don't even have the facility for takeoff and departure times.

Perhaps I'll have to retire ??

Sleeve. :ok: :ok:

Lasors is not a definitive legal document and is overuled by the ANO which does not require departure/landing times to be logged (section 1, Part IV, 28)

Yes I know the ANO is law, and JAR/LASOR's are more like recommendations, but may as well get into a good habbit ahy?

Better then Sleeve Wing, where there isn't any departure and arrival times logged in any of his flights :p

Never done it in my life and the CAA don't seem worried.

Departure and arrival times might be extremely useful to you when the enforcers want to 'do' the pilot of an aircraft used by several.

Instant edit: you'd get that info from the hirer anyhow, I guess.

CG

Going back to the original question, though.....

I suspect that 0:30+0:30 is the correct answer for your logbook. But watch out, because logbooks are different. Most smaller logbooks designed for PPLs that I've seen have one set of columns for day (dual/solo, single or multi engine, etc) and another identical set for night.

But my Jeppesen logbook has just one set of columns to indicate whether a flight a dual or solo, and whether it is single or multi engine. It then has just one column for night flying. I figure that in this case the correct way of filling in my logbook would be to record 1:00 as the total time (in the P1 column), and then put 0:30 in the night column.

I think, at the end of the day, it actually makes no difference as long as it's clear.

FFF
-------------

Remember its a personal log book, put in it what you like, all the law wants is:

Personal flying log book
35. —(1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United
Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the
grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in
which the following particulars shall be recorded—
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder's licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew
of an aircraft; and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a
member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or
renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log
book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable,
including—
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the
aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either
capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted,
including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
(3) For the purposes of this article, a helicopter shall be deemed to be in flight from the
moment the helicopter first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until
the rotors are next stopped.
(4) Particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in a flight simulator shall
be recorded in the log book, including—
(a) the date of the test or examination;
(b) the type of simulator;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted; and
(d) the nature of the test or examination.

Thanks for advice on my original question - makes sense to split the times.

FFF - Good point about log book columns. Mine is AFE and has 2 cols each for day night and its almost full so I will avoid the Jepp.

Right can of worms on what we should be logging:-

When I did my FAA IR, FAA Form 8710 asked me for the number of night take offs/landings, both dual and solo. Also, there are different definitions of solo and PIC: Solo means sole occupant of aircraft. PIC means sole manuipulator of controls ref FAR 61.51(d) and (e). Makes filling in forms a bit tricky. Go figure - as they say.

Last month I flew in Oz which required that I apply for a Cert of Validation (CV). One of the questions was number of hours ICUS (in control under supervision) or PIC to us. I didn't have all 3 logbooks with me so had to guess concervative number.

Wonder what you need in South Africa, etc etc?

Only safe way is to record everything including inside leg measurement, put it in Excel and carry the pda with you.!

"One of the questions was number of hours ICUS (in control under supervision) or PIC to us"

In control under supervision, is not PIC its Dual (PUT-pilot under training). PIC is when you are solo in a single pilot aircraft, with no instructor in the aircraft.

HB

Not in FAA land.

"PIC is when you are solo in a single pilot aircraft, with no instructor in the aircraft."

Absolute Nonsense! There is no requirement to be solo" You can carry passengers who could be instructors. If the Tech Log shows you as PIC and you are qualified, thats it!

If you are being instructed its PUT.

windy1 said,

"Last month I flew in Oz which required that I apply for a Cert of Validation (CV). One of the questions was number of hours ICUS (in control under supervision) or PIC to us.

englishal who is talking about FAA procedures??

when he said "us" i assumed he meant the UK, hence my explanation of the UK terminology.

zeesh!

oh my god, why do people need to be spelt out things. i obviously know that, but when he said, "ICUS (in control under supervision) or PIC to us," i simlpy was making the point that this is dual and not PIC. when i said "with no instructor in the aircraft" i meant not receiving any instruction, do you guys need everything spelt out?

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Its called communication!

Hour Builder,

You seem to require a lot of stuff spelled out to you, as you clearly sprout rubbish most of the time.

ta ta

englishal, i need stuff spelled out to me or "spelt" out to me.

Oh and I sprout rubbish do I? I don't "spout" it.

rest my case!

spell (FORM WORDS)
verb [I or T] spelled or UK AND AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH ALSO spelt, spelled or UK AND AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH ALSO spelt
to form a word or words with the letters in the correct order

sprout
verb
1 [I or T] to produce leaves, hair and other new developing parts, or (of leaves, hair and other developing parts) to begin to grow

I rest my case.

:O I grow rubbish then?

;) I am just in a bad mood today as I have a sore throat and blocked ears and can't fly :{

sorry if i wasnt clear

Now Now children , stop playing and fight nicely

I've lost the plot here but... in the UK

P1 or PIC - In command whether solo or with passengers who may or may not be instructors. My instructor quite often likes to fly with me so he can take some photographs! I log that as P1

P1u/s or PICUS - under supervision. Used for taking skills test etc and still counts as PIC time but where the instructor has his instructor's hat on

Pu/t - under training - dual with instructor.

So, windy1 ICUS = PICUS or P1u/s to us!!

Cheers

Whirls

"P1 or PIC - In command whether solo or with passengers who may or may not be instructors. My instructor quite often likes to fly with me so he can take some photographs! I log that as P1"...........correct

P1u/s or PICUS - under supervision. Used for taking skills test etc and still counts as PIC time but where the instructor has his instructor's hat on...........correct but am pretty sure the skills test has to be JAR.

Pu/t - under training - dual with instructor.....Correct

So, windy1 ICUS = PICUS or P1u/s to us!!.....incorrect. to me ICUS is PUT, unless it was a successful JAR skills test.

correct me if i'm wrong....again:O

Hour builder, I think you're only partly correct!

I forgot (mea culpa) to add that the skills test has to be succesful otherwise it is Pu/t. Most skills tests are successful otherwise the applicant wouldn't have been put up for it in the first place so you haven't really added much to my point that Pilot In Command Under Supervision is still P1 time, not dual.

If a skills test has been failed it is logged as Pu/t; if it was passed it is logged as P1u/s (or PICUS), therefore, PICUS is never Pu/t!


Cheers

Whirls

I've always logged the night part in the 'Night' column and the remainder in the 'Day', so from the previous example, 0:30 and 0:30 in each like this .

More of a conundrum to me has always been 'when does night start when en-route?' At sunset+30 at the point of departure? sunset +30 and the destination? We all know the illusion that altitude delays the sun setting, so should it be sunset (+30?) at the cruise altitude (and how do you calculate this?) or at some other altitude? In theory it would be possible to take off in daylight, fly into darkness, climb back into daylight to continue back into darkness again. So many options, and so far I have more or less taken the mean of the departure & destination +30, but would appreciate if anyone can state the definitive rule

Easy, when the sun is 12½ arc minutes below the horizon (I think). Same for sunrise :D

So theoretically you could be illegally logging if you are at 30,000' and log "night" as the same time as night starts on the ground. I should imagine it's a £30,000 fine, confiscation of the aircraft, and banned from flying for life ;)

Actually, a "guestimate" is good enough for me.