4 People in C172 - feedback please
 

Hi -

Assuming you're within weight & balance is carrying 3 pax + pilot in a C172 ok?

I am hesitant to do it simply because I haven't seen others in the club doing likewise but the numbers are fine (light enough pax). Is there something I'm missing or should I go ahead and use the seats?

VT

If it wasn't ok it wouldn't have 4 seats ;)

I've done it no problems, just make sure you've not got too much fuel first. You've already said the W&B is ok - there's your answer. Very surprised the club you're hiring from hasn't done a 'full weight' flight as part of your conversion / club check out - mine insisted on it.

No problem what-so-ever with 4 peeps in a 172.

If you haven't already tried it, though - make the first 'four up' flight with an instructor in the front, then do a go-around from the landing configuration (full flap).

Would also give you the chance to study the take off and climb performance(s). Learn it at base - before going to small strips.

Not done it yet in a C172, but I have in a PA28. Had to fly off a bit of fuel solo first to get down to maximum weight, but after that everything worked as advertised.

I did have a butt-clenching moment on take-off, where I was convinced that she wasn't going to reach rotate speed in time. Of course the nose lifted in near enough exactly the space the performance charts said it would. Still recommend doing it on a very big runway or with an instructor, just once, so that you know what to expect and don't have that same butt-clenching moment though.

FFF
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I have found it depends on the 172 you are flying! There are some 172s I woulod not attempt anything more than 3 people. Get to know the aircraft you are flying befor eyou go loading it up fully, also keep in mind there are variants of the 172 including the 172SP which can climb like a lovesick angel if maintained properly.

It also depends on where you are using it from, i.e. high density altitudes, etc, a 172 that could have climbed fine before may now behave like a brick.

I've found 172s are better performers 4-up than most PA28s.

You do need to do the W&B, to check the takeoff performance at today's temperature, and to add in the safety factors, but that said - no problem.

On the other hand, there are some 4 seaters that cannot fly in IMC at all with four normal weight adults - the minimum IFR reserve fuel takes you over MTWA. The Rockwell Commander 112 is one such.

Flew a 172M (1976 150 HP model) the other day. Back of a fag packet performance was :


1000 fpm climb solo (155 lbs of pilot)
700 fpm with instructor (+ 220 pounds of instructor)

Full fuel both times, and approximately similar weather, but obviously near gross weight, you are going to lose some climb rate.

I've done four-up in a 172 and in a Warrior and had no problems.

Be sure to do weight and balance calculations (because you almost certainly will not be able to take a full load of fuel).

Also do takeoff and landing performance calculations - particularly if you are using a short runway, or have obstacles near the field, or have a high density altitude.

I've found that a fully laden Warrior on a hot day does not climb very spectacularly.

In the 172 you may find that with the trim set in the marked takeoff position, the aircraft will gently lift itself off the runway when it's ready to fly, without any control input from you, and before you were actually intending to rotate.

If this happens and makes you feel uncomfortable , keep flying in ground effect just above the runway until the aircraft picks up a few more knots.

I've never known that phenomenon to occur in any Piper.

I've done it too and without any problems. Julian (and others) is right though, Density altitude is a factor just as is no of pax.

For real load hauling though, try a 182. ;)