Seething Formation Photo's!
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Seething Formation Photo's!
On Saturday, myself and my good friend Adrian (aka 1013.25) took up formationfoto's offer to drag the trusty Piper Dakota G-ODAK over to the lovely Seething airfield, south-east of Norwich, for some air-to-air photos...
It was a magnificent experience! Just getting there was a treat - those that were out and about Saturday morning will know it was a bit windy! But the turbulence wasn't so bad and we had a pleasant flight with incredible visibility (for once!) from Wycombe via overhead Luton (after approx. six orbits holding short about 1/2 mile waiting for the landing Easyjets and watching them enjoy the x-wind!). And Adrian made a most entertaining and successful landing at Seething, given the conditions
The photo session itself involved taking off after the camera ship (which had two other members of the Seething Photo Group aboard), and catching it up. then we went up above the clouds (makes a nicer background I'm told!) and into close formation. I have no previous experience of this, so formationfoto sitting alongside me in the r.h. seat handled our aircraft for the formation work. If you've never had the chance to experience this, then I'd recommend you do! The trip to Seething is worth it for this alone!
So plenty of photos were taken at various levels, and in turns, etc. And then it was time for us to return to Seething - and now my turn to make an "interesting" x-wind landing for the entertainment of all on board!
We were then presented with our complimentary photo-CD - which was ready before we departed for home via a stop at Cambdridge (which was nice too!).
I've put some of the photos on the web. Please note that these images are provided courtesy of and Copyright Seething photo team / PILOT Archive. HERE
It was a magnificent experience! Just getting there was a treat - those that were out and about Saturday morning will know it was a bit windy! But the turbulence wasn't so bad and we had a pleasant flight with incredible visibility (for once!) from Wycombe via overhead Luton (after approx. six orbits holding short about 1/2 mile waiting for the landing Easyjets and watching them enjoy the x-wind!). And Adrian made a most entertaining and successful landing at Seething, given the conditions
The photo session itself involved taking off after the camera ship (which had two other members of the Seething Photo Group aboard), and catching it up. then we went up above the clouds (makes a nicer background I'm told!) and into close formation. I have no previous experience of this, so formationfoto sitting alongside me in the r.h. seat handled our aircraft for the formation work. If you've never had the chance to experience this, then I'd recommend you do! The trip to Seething is worth it for this alone!
So plenty of photos were taken at various levels, and in turns, etc. And then it was time for us to return to Seething - and now my turn to make an "interesting" x-wind landing for the entertainment of all on board!
We were then presented with our complimentary photo-CD - which was ready before we departed for home via a stop at Cambdridge (which was nice too!).
I've put some of the photos on the web. Please note that these images are provided courtesy of and Copyright Seething photo team / PILOT Archive. HERE
Last edited by Aussie Andy; 28th Oct 2002 at 23:15.
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Some of the images
And here are some of my favourites:
... and this photo taken by my friend Suzanne after landing at Cambridge on the way home... I think I might have been trying to explain something about cross-wind landings!?
... and this photo taken by my friend Suzanne after landing at Cambridge on the way home... I think I might have been trying to explain something about cross-wind landings!?
Last edited by Aussie Andy; 28th Oct 2002 at 23:07.
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Looks like great fun. As a bit of a keen photographer I'd love to do somthing like that one day, but need to practice the basic flying skills a bit more first.
Formationfoto, any technical reason why all the shots are taken from the starboard side of the object a/c? I would have thought you could get a bit more variety by moving over to the other side for a bit. Is it to make sure you get your own photogenic mugshot on each one? 
And just out of interest what camera kit/lenses do you use? I assume it's a digital SLR.
Formationfoto, any technical reason why all the shots are taken from the starboard side of the object a/c? I would have thought you could get a bit more variety by moving over to the other side for a bit. Is it to make sure you get your own photogenic mugshot on each one?
And just out of interest what camera kit/lenses do you use? I assume it's a digital SLR.
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Normally we would put up two pilot / photographers so that we can get shots both sides but this wasn't possible on Saturday (we had two pilots but only one photogtrapher). Preference is to get some variety of shots using both sides - also means I am not grinning out of every photograph (although my collection of grins from different airframes is growing nicely!).
Kit is variously Canon D60 or Nikon D1X (in this case the Nikon). Both are extremely good digital SLRs. Selection of canon and Sigma lenses (in this case mostly a 28 - 70 zoom).
The tail of the C150 camera ship in the second shot on Andys faves has been airbrushed out in my version now.
Kit is variously Canon D60 or Nikon D1X (in this case the Nikon). Both are extremely good digital SLRs. Selection of canon and Sigma lenses (in this case mostly a 28 - 70 zoom).
The tail of the C150 camera ship in the second shot on Andys faves has been airbrushed out in my version now.
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The tail of the C150 camera ship in the second shot on Andys faves has been airbrushed out in my version now.
Thanks again ff,
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Normally we would put up two pilot / photographers so that we can get shots both sides but this wasn't possible on Saturday (we had two pilots but only one photogtrapher).
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Damian B - offer noted!
Actually we are keen to use a known team who work together closely for improved safety and speed so there isn't much opportunity to involve others. It can be quite interesting for pax in the target / subject aircraft though.
Anyone in East Anglia wanting to join in with the team (on the photographic rather than the formation flying side) with excellent flying skills and a good photographic eye I am always happy to talk to but not only is there no payment you have to pay your own flying costs - all for the fun of taking pictures and possibly getting them published (again without payment) in an aviation magazine.
Actually we are keen to use a known team who work together closely for improved safety and speed so there isn't much opportunity to involve others. It can be quite interesting for pax in the target / subject aircraft though.
Anyone in East Anglia wanting to join in with the team (on the photographic rather than the formation flying side) with excellent flying skills and a good photographic eye I am always happy to talk to but not only is there no payment you have to pay your own flying costs - all for the fun of taking pictures and possibly getting them published (again without payment) in an aviation magazine.
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FF, any chance you could offer some simple pointers on formatoin flying?
I colleague has asked if I'll go flying with him and a few others to take some air-to-air photos of him whilst he's airborne. (I'll be in a R44 - don't think a R22 could keep up - and he's in a Warrior - whatever one of those is ).
Any suggestions as to who does what?
Does the target ship flight S&L, and the camera ship move around him? How do you communicate if only one radio on board?
Its a potentially dangerous situation and I just want us to be going into this with our eyes open...
I colleague has asked if I'll go flying with him and a few others to take some air-to-air photos of him whilst he's airborne. (I'll be in a R44 - don't think a R22 could keep up - and he's in a Warrior - whatever one of those is
).Any suggestions as to who does what?
Does the target ship flight S&L, and the camera ship move around him? How do you communicate if only one radio on board?
Its a potentially dangerous situation and I just want us to be going into this with our eyes open...
How do you ensure you dont get a reflection from the canopy of the aircraft you're in, in the shot? Can you use a polarising filter without getting the 'rainbow effect' showing?
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RotorHorn Regarding formation flying: formationfoto is the expert, but my point-of-view is that this is not to be attempted unless proper training has been undertaken! I was amazed just sitting next to ff (he in r.h. seat) while he did it and am in no doubt that training is required to do this! To answer your question, the camera ship stays ahead and generally straight/level, and the target aircraft (with ff in it!) "formates" by coming alongside and slightly below. ff mentioned to me that he knows of somewhere that offers training for formation flying - perhaps he could mention here?
jumpseater - To avoid canopy reflectionsthe guy with the camera had his window open and hi head and camera out of the aircraft!
jumpseater - To avoid canopy reflectionsthe guy with the camera had his window open and hi head and camera out of the aircraft!
Nice pics chaps and I will take up your offer of a photo session with the Auster one day ff
Andy, the BA colour scheme really suits the Dakota. Very neat.
Andy, the BA colour scheme really suits the Dakota. Very neat.
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LowNSlow I agree - I always feel very proud, in any of the BAFC aircraft as they look so great, and are maintained very well too!
Its fun to pull up outside a commercial terminal - e.g. Southend - where "real" BA flights are expected, you can see the worried expressions on waiting pax faces thinking "God, we're not going in that little thing are we!?"
This even happened to us in Tours earlier this year where, while grabbing a bite to eat in the terminal, I overheard people saying "Glad we're going with Ryanair (or was it Easyjet?) as I don't fancy going back on BA as their aircraft are awfully tiny!!!"
Its fun to pull up outside a commercial terminal - e.g. Southend - where "real" BA flights are expected, you can see the worried expressions on waiting pax faces thinking "God, we're not going in that little thing are we!?"
This even happened to us in Tours earlier this year where, while grabbing a bite to eat in the terminal, I overheard people saying "Glad we're going with Ryanair (or was it Easyjet?) as I don't fancy going back on BA as their aircraft are awfully tiny!!!"
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AA has answered a couple of the questions. I know this sounds a bit arrogant but I have a lot of practice at both standard formation flying and the slightly different skill required to try and position the target aircraft whilst thinking from the perspective and viewpoint of the cameraship. I think it would irresponsible of me to suggest it is easy or to entice others to try it by offering tips but if you can get some training it is good fun. There is a formation school held at North Weald for warbrid flyers a couple of times a year I think. Also there may be some training at Leicester as there is a Cessna formation team based at the flying club there who are extremely good given the machines they have to play with - I think the team leader participates in this forum.
After safety my two objectives are:
to get the aircraft into a position which shows it off well taking into account the light on the day, the available background, the shape, and the colour
to create as much variety as possible in position, action, and background.
I have shot from R22 and flown R22 for shooting from fixed wing. Rather a different proposition as my rotary formation skills are not as well honed. For me at least close formation was not an option as the position of the disc is less easy to judge than the relative position of wing and tailplane for instance.
I would always choose an opening window over a fixed perspex window for clarity of shot. If no option then internal reflections can be avoided by using a rubber lens hood or some other mechanism for keeping the internal light from reflecting on the perspex. Resting the lens on the aircraft is not a great idea as the vibration tends to soften the shot at the typical shutter speeds of 250th.
Lots of don'ts and 'musts'.
Don't formate unless you have been coached.
Don't formate until you are comfortable with the handling of the aircraft - and you understand the peformance and limitations of the other aircraft.
Don't formate with someone whos ability you are uncertain of.
Don't assume that anyone without experience can lead - you need someone who understands the implications of their actions.
Don't lose sight of the other aircraft unless you know that they are nowhere near.
Always agree the sortie
Always have an escape route
Always agree method of communication and if this fails abort
Don't continue if you are uncertain.
Don't don't don't try taking pictures (particularly in formation - either lose or close - at the same time as flying the aircraft.
Plenty more where they came from but hopefully enough to suggest that this is not an activity to be taken lightly despite the temptation to do so from the comments on this thread about how much fun it is.
If this sounds negative - it is meant to be. Better to be alive to have fun than killing yourself before the fun begins.
After safety my two objectives are:
to get the aircraft into a position which shows it off well taking into account the light on the day, the available background, the shape, and the colour
to create as much variety as possible in position, action, and background.
I have shot from R22 and flown R22 for shooting from fixed wing. Rather a different proposition as my rotary formation skills are not as well honed. For me at least close formation was not an option as the position of the disc is less easy to judge than the relative position of wing and tailplane for instance.
I would always choose an opening window over a fixed perspex window for clarity of shot. If no option then internal reflections can be avoided by using a rubber lens hood or some other mechanism for keeping the internal light from reflecting on the perspex. Resting the lens on the aircraft is not a great idea as the vibration tends to soften the shot at the typical shutter speeds of 250th.
Lots of don'ts and 'musts'.
Don't formate unless you have been coached.
Don't formate until you are comfortable with the handling of the aircraft - and you understand the peformance and limitations of the other aircraft.
Don't formate with someone whos ability you are uncertain of.
Don't assume that anyone without experience can lead - you need someone who understands the implications of their actions.
Don't lose sight of the other aircraft unless you know that they are nowhere near.
Always agree the sortie
Always have an escape route
Always agree method of communication and if this fails abort
Don't continue if you are uncertain.
Don't don't don't try taking pictures (particularly in formation - either lose or close - at the same time as flying the aircraft.
Plenty more where they came from but hopefully enough to suggest that this is not an activity to be taken lightly despite the temptation to do so from the comments on this thread about how much fun it is.
If this sounds negative - it is meant to be. Better to be alive to have fun than killing yourself before the fun begins.
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formationfoto - damn good advice m8.
I believe the cessna team (Foxtrot Formation Display team) you are talking about is actually based at Coventry (Coventry Flying School) and whilst the team leader doesnt frequent the forums the No 6 does
Best place for non-warbird formation training that I know of is on-track aviation: http://www.ontrackaviation.com
BTW..nice piccies!!!
Hope this helps,
FF
I believe the cessna team (Foxtrot Formation Display team) you are talking about is actually based at Coventry (Coventry Flying School) and whilst the team leader doesnt frequent the forums the No 6 does
Best place for non-warbird formation training that I know of is on-track aviation: http://www.ontrackaviation.com
BTW..nice piccies!!!
Hope this helps,
FF
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FF
well it is all the midlands isn't it!
Apologies slight loss of faculties, indeed I meant coventry and damned good team they / you are too.
All for making it clear that formation (with instruction) isn't just for those with access or funds to play with Harvard or Yak.
well it is all the midlands isn't it!
Apologies slight loss of faculties, indeed I meant coventry and damned good team they / you are too.
All for making it clear that formation (with instruction) isn't just for those with access or funds to play with Harvard or Yak.
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Maybe it's my deteriorating eyesight after 35 years of peering through Nikon viewfinders at aeroplanes, but not one of those Dakota pictures looks critically sharp to me. Maybe they're just low-rez versions of the originals?
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Well, AussieAndy, I have tried it. Indeed, I have been photographing aircraft professionally for the past 35 years, and I know only too well how difficult (and potentially dangerous) air-to-air sessions can be even in the most benign conditions. Nonetheless, unsharp photos go in my bin, whatever the reason.