MATZ listening squawks
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MATZ listening squawks
In some congested areas of UK Class G airspace multiple MATZs add to navigational complexity and R/T workload. Perhaps a better system would be to allocate listening squawks and allow MATZ penetration without initiating contact with ATC.
An alternative (non-transponder) procedure might be to allow MATZ penetration without permission as long as you are listening out on the controlling frequency.
On a related topic, does Odiham need its MATZ stubs since most of its traffic is rotary?
An alternative (non-transponder) procedure might be to allow MATZ penetration without permission as long as you are listening out on the controlling frequency.
On a related topic, does Odiham need its MATZ stubs since most of its traffic is rotary?
Avoid imitations
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In some congested areas of UK Class G airspace multiple MATZs add to navigational complexity and R/T workload. Perhaps a better system would be to allocate listening squawks and allow MATZ penetration without initiating contact with ATC.
An alternative (non-transponder) procedure might be to allow MATZ penetration without permission as long as you are listening out on the controlling frequency.
On a related topic, does Odiham need its MATZ stubs since most of its traffic is rotary?
An alternative (non-transponder) procedure might be to allow MATZ penetration without permission as long as you are listening out on the controlling frequency.
On a related topic, does Odiham need its MATZ stubs since most of its traffic is rotary?
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I wonder if anyone has told the RAF?
I frequently took telephone calls from a nearby RAF station informing me that one of the based private aeroplanes had "infringed controlled airspace" when flying through a MATZ which they were perfectly entitled to do although as previously mentioned it is not wise.
I frequently took telephone calls from a nearby RAF station informing me that one of the based private aeroplanes had "infringed controlled airspace" when flying through a MATZ which they were perfectly entitled to do although as previously mentioned it is not wise.
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Radio communication and approval of your intentions, or a request for you to do something, like stay above a certain height for example, are strongly recommended, yes. But permission one way or the other does not come into it since it is not controlled airspace.
As for the suggestion of listening squawks - no thanks, since many aircraft do not carry transponders. Letting non transponder equipped aircraft just listen on frequency is a nonsense, since they are allowed in anyway.
As for the suggestion of listening squawks - no thanks, since many aircraft do not carry transponders. Letting non transponder equipped aircraft just listen on frequency is a nonsense, since they are allowed in anyway.
Last edited by Heston; 16th Nov 2021 at 19:38.
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Listening Squawks can be usefull, but they seem to be increasingly used as an excuse to not provide a service to GA by Civilian ATC I wouldnt like to see the same thing happen with Military units who in my experience are very helpful and accommodating here in the UK
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The MATZ system was set up in the mid-1960s when few aircraft were fitted with transponders and overall air traffic density was considerably less than today's. The intention was to offer a degree of additional protection to military traffic operating in the vicinity of bases but without adding the complexity of legal obligations.
The main differences now are that most aircraft are transponder-equipped, airspace restrictions are considerably more numerous and air traffic in certain regions (such as SE England) is greatly increased.
If a military aircraft was carrying out an instrument approach in IMC, what protection would it have if an intruder decided to transit the MATZ without negotiating penetration clearance? Suppose the intruder was not transmitting Mode C, thereby rendering TCAS (if fitted) ineffective, with no TAs or RAs. Perhaps the intruder's radar return (mode A or primary for non-transponding aircraft) would be picked up by the MATZ controller but what could he or she do apart from vectoring the aircraft carrying out the instrument approach around the intruder, which might mean breaking off the approach.
Perhaps there is a case for MATZs to become mandatory 'listening zones' (VHF or transponder) to allow transit without ATC exchange. Think how much quieter the R/T traffic would be.
The main differences now are that most aircraft are transponder-equipped, airspace restrictions are considerably more numerous and air traffic in certain regions (such as SE England) is greatly increased.
If a military aircraft was carrying out an instrument approach in IMC, what protection would it have if an intruder decided to transit the MATZ without negotiating penetration clearance? Suppose the intruder was not transmitting Mode C, thereby rendering TCAS (if fitted) ineffective, with no TAs or RAs. Perhaps the intruder's radar return (mode A or primary for non-transponding aircraft) would be picked up by the MATZ controller but what could he or she do apart from vectoring the aircraft carrying out the instrument approach around the intruder, which might mean breaking off the approach.
Perhaps there is a case for MATZs to become mandatory 'listening zones' (VHF or transponder) to allow transit without ATC exchange. Think how much quieter the R/T traffic would be.
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Suppose the intruder was not transmitting Mode C, thereby rendering TCAS (if fitted) inactive.
However, that still causes an issue. Knowing that there is another aircraft laterally close by and potentially conflicting, but unable to know whether to look up, down, or wherever, is very bad for the blood pressure. I was in that very position less than 24 hours ago.
Mode C is a legal requirement for IFR flight but there is no way of knowing if a “Mode A only” aircraft is actually flying clear of cloud or not at that particular time because a pilot could ignore that requirement, or have a failed Mode C and be blissfully unaware, especially if not talking to an ATC unit.
Discorde, I see you have edited and corrected your post since I began my reply. 😎
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Discorde you're still talking about "clearance" and "controller". I repeat, these are inaccurate when applied to civil aircraft and MATZs.
Incidentally where additional protection for military traffic is needed it is put in place. Brize has Class D for example, and many moons ago Upper Heyford had a mandatory radio area.
Incidentally where additional protection for military traffic is needed it is put in place. Brize has Class D for example, and many moons ago Upper Heyford had a mandatory radio area.
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many moons ago Upper Heyford had a mandatory radio area
Them: Golf Zulu Zulu you're not painting'
Us (in a Jodel) 'Yes, that's 'cos we're made of wood!'
Sometime later, crossing the UHMRA, saw a F111 crossing just above and ahead. Quickly looked around and sure enough, there was the second one, just below and passing underneath. No, our 'friend' from across the Atlantic hadn't advised us of either...
TOO
Discorde you're still talking about "clearance" and "controller". I repeat, these are inaccurate when applied to civil aircraft and MATZs.
Incidentally where additional protection for military traffic is needed it is put in place. Brize has Class D for example, and many moons ago Upper Heyford had a mandatory radio area.
Incidentally where additional protection for military traffic is needed it is put in place. Brize has Class D for example, and many moons ago Upper Heyford had a mandatory radio area.
Yes, run by the 'Mericans. Very amusing.
Them: Golf Zulu Zulu you're not painting'
Us (in a Jodel) 'Yes, that's 'cos we're made of wood!'
Sometime later, crossing the UHMRA, saw a F111 crossing just above and ahead. Quickly looked around and sure enough, there was the second one, just below and passing underneath. No, our 'friend' from across the Atlantic hadn't advised us of either...
TOO
Them: Golf Zulu Zulu you're not painting'
Us (in a Jodel) 'Yes, that's 'cos we're made of wood!'
Sometime later, crossing the UHMRA, saw a F111 crossing just above and ahead. Quickly looked around and sure enough, there was the second one, just below and passing underneath. No, our 'friend' from across the Atlantic hadn't advised us of either...
TOO
