Tyre inner tubes
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Tyre inner tubes
What the hell goes on with tyre inner tubes. Had now about five deflations and flats in 12 months, club aircraft.
This would be on a Piper Tomahawk 5 inch wheels.
Both mains and nose.
Even had at least 2-3 on Warrior.
Are there some bad brands out there or dodgy batches going around.
If it was one bad wheel i could understand something wrong with that wheel.
This would be on a Piper Tomahawk 5 inch wheels.
Both mains and nose.
Even had at least 2-3 on Warrior.
Are there some bad brands out there or dodgy batches going around.
If it was one bad wheel i could understand something wrong with that wheel.
Things on the surface? E.G. wire from brushing a hard runway in winter. It's removed by a magnet, but bits might remain at edge of grass, if light aircraft taxi onto grass.
I’m told that the inner tube in the tire/tyre in the nose gear can rot out because the front tire gets such little impact and abrasion relative to the mains that it can get past its sell date since the nose wheel doesn’t get changed out as often as the mains.
I also remember being scolded by my flight instructor, when learning to fly, to not to turn the nose wheel unless you were moving, as that can scrub off some of the rubber at a single spot and reduce its useful life.
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I landed at an airport once, enjoyed the local area with friends, then returned to find a flat nose wheel. Fortunately, there was a an FBO able to do repairs. They pumped up the front tire, only to watch it go flat again fifteen minutes later. They were able to replace the inner tube, or maybe the front tire too. I forget which, as it was a club plane, so I didn’t have to pay for it out of pocket.
I do know if I had it pumped up then took off immediately, it would have been flat again before I landed, which would have pushed my skills beyond what I had any interest in pursuing. My friends thought it was part of the adventure, especially the part where the mechanics leaned on the tail to lift the nose off the ground so the could repair the flat.
I have no idea why the mains would go flat. How long has it been since they underwent maintenace?
I also remember being scolded by my flight instructor, when learning to fly, to not to turn the nose wheel unless you were moving, as that can scrub off some of the rubber at a single spot and reduce its useful life.
————
I landed at an airport once, enjoyed the local area with friends, then returned to find a flat nose wheel. Fortunately, there was a an FBO able to do repairs. They pumped up the front tire, only to watch it go flat again fifteen minutes later. They were able to replace the inner tube, or maybe the front tire too. I forget which, as it was a club plane, so I didn’t have to pay for it out of pocket.
I do know if I had it pumped up then took off immediately, it would have been flat again before I landed, which would have pushed my skills beyond what I had any interest in pursuing. My friends thought it was part of the adventure, especially the part where the mechanics leaned on the tail to lift the nose off the ground so the could repair the flat.
I have no idea why the mains would go flat. How long has it been since they underwent maintenace?
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Front might be 5 months since replace. Nothing in the tread, nearly new tyre.
No tyre has ever been found to have been damaged,
They just deflate for no good reason, then tube is ruined.
Sometimes i leave on Sunday, come back to work Tuesday, flat.
Most go flat just after turning off landing. This last tyre i checked pressure 3 days ago. Set at 38psi.
But have seen table that suggested as high as 50 psi.
No tyre has ever been found to have been damaged,
They just deflate for no good reason, then tube is ruined.
Sometimes i leave on Sunday, come back to work Tuesday, flat.
Most go flat just after turning off landing. This last tyre i checked pressure 3 days ago. Set at 38psi.
But have seen table that suggested as high as 50 psi.
When I was in elementary school, some jerks used to let the air out of my bicycle tires on purpose just to be mean.
Seems highly unlikely in an aviation context, but maybe video surveillance wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Get in touch with the manufacturer and see if they have any ideas.
Seems highly unlikely in an aviation context, but maybe video surveillance wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Get in touch with the manufacturer and see if they have any ideas.
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When I was in elementary school, some jerks used to let the air out of my bicycle tires on purpose just to be mean.
Seems highly unlikely in an aviation context, but maybe video surveillance wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Get in touch with the manufacturer and see if they have any ideas.
Seems highly unlikely in an aviation context, but maybe video surveillance wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Get in touch with the manufacturer and see if they have any ideas.
It's getting expensive over a grand in 12 months on tyres/tubes plus fitting.
I’m told that the tire/tyre in the nose gear can rot out because the front tire gets such little impact relative to the mains
They just deflate for no good reason, then tube is ruined.
Most go flat just after turning off landing.
Directly steered nose wheels of the Piper range are a problem because the nose wheel can be aligned sideways from rudder input during the touchdown even if for no aerodynamic reason. The Tomahawks is infamous owing to this problem. The nosewheel assembly is attached to the forward section of the engine frame and requires regular expensive repairs especially those used for training. The sideways position of the nosewheel isn't confined to the landing but also the take-off. The Tomahawk requires quite a high speed before the high tailplane is capable of lifting the nosewheel weight. During the long period whilst the necessary speed is gained the tyre will be scuffing throughout a crosswind take-off.
Last edited by Fl1ingfrog; 25th Jul 2021 at 20:47.
I was taught to bank the plane into the landing, so the upwind wing is low and the nose wheel and plane is pointed straight down the runway.
It does mean cross controls with rudder pushed one way and ailerons the other, which may be a no-no in some circles, but if done just before touchdown at low speed it keeps you pointed straight down the runway.
One main touches down first, but the plane isn’t at an angle to the runway when you touch down.
It does mean cross controls with rudder pushed one way and ailerons the other, which may be a no-no in some circles, but if done just before touchdown at low speed it keeps you pointed straight down the runway.
One main touches down first, but the plane isn’t at an angle to the runway when you touch down.
Directly steered nose wheels of the Piper range are a problem because the nose wheel can be aligned sideways on touchdown but for no aerodynamic reason. The Tomahawks is infamous owing to this problem. The nosewheel assembly is attached to the forward section of the engine frame and requires regular expensive repairs to those used for training .
Perhaps a better designed cowling would help keep the nose wheel better oriented upon landing???
It was a club plane, but you had to be a fully certified pilot to join. No students, and most people flew the Cessnas. I learned to fly elsewhere on Tomahawks, then Warriors, so I was one of the few that used the Warrior on a regular basis.
I think I knew how to make decent landings by then…
P.S., I learned to fly in California, where planes bake in the sun at least nine or ten months out of twelve.
What the hell goes on with tyre inner tubes. Had now about five deflations and flats in 12 months, club aircraft.
This would be on a Piper Tomahawk 5 inch wheels.
Both mains and nose.
Even had at least 2-3 on Warrior.
Are there some bad brands out there or dodgy batches going around.
If it was one bad wheel i could understand something wrong with that wheel.
This would be on a Piper Tomahawk 5 inch wheels.
Both mains and nose.
Even had at least 2-3 on Warrior.
Are there some bad brands out there or dodgy batches going around.
If it was one bad wheel i could understand something wrong with that wheel.
If you do not use a good dose of talcum or baby powder on the tube and in the tyre - expect deflations.
From Goodyear
Michelin advice on tube installation.
Both include Before installing tube, dust the tube and inside of tire with tire talc or soapstone.
It is recommended that tubes not be reused; they can grow as much as 25% in service. Reusing them can result in folded, pinched tubes which can fail or create an imbalance. Ensure that any manufacturing stickers on the tire innerliner are removed to prevent damage to the tube.
Inflate to the recommended pressure, deflate, then reinflate to assure a proper fit of the tube inside the tire. This procedure helps remove any wrinkles in the tube and helps prevent pinching the tube under the toe of the bead. it helps eliminate the possibility of one section of the tube stretching more than the rest and thinning out in that area. Further, it assists in the removal of air that might be trapped between the inner tube and the tire. let stand for 12-24 hours to compensate for tire growth and to allow any air trapped between the tube and the tire to escape. After placing in service, check pressure before each flight and for several days, adjusting pressure as necessary, until the tire stabilizes.
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Get the club to replace all the inner tubes!
I had a similar problem some years ago on my aircraft - random deflations.
Turned out to be all the inner tubes had been on for about 20 years, not replaced when the tyres had been.
All had minor leaks which only showed up now and again. Changed the lot and not had a problem since…..
I had a similar problem some years ago on my aircraft - random deflations.
Turned out to be all the inner tubes had been on for about 20 years, not replaced when the tyres had been.
All had minor leaks which only showed up now and again. Changed the lot and not had a problem since…..
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Well yes, i'm going to watch what they do next time, perhaps i go armed with a packet of talc and ask them to give the tubes a liberal coating.
I don't remember seeing a tyre with any talc marks on. Might make it easier for the creep mark paint to stay on.
Something odd is going on.
Most times tubes can't be checked for leaks as they don't survive being taxied on flat, but i'm going to follow the fix on this tyre, see what goes on.
I don't remember seeing a tyre with any talc marks on. Might make it easier for the creep mark paint to stay on.
Something odd is going on.
Most times tubes can't be checked for leaks as they don't survive being taxied on flat, but i'm going to follow the fix on this tyre, see what goes on.
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Get the club to replace all the inner tubes!
I had a similar problem some years ago on my aircraft - random deflations.
Turned out to be all the inner tubes had been on for about 20 years, not replaced when the tyres had been.
All had minor leaks which only showed up now and again. Changed the lot and not had a problem since…..
I had a similar problem some years ago on my aircraft - random deflations.
Turned out to be all the inner tubes had been on for about 20 years, not replaced when the tyres had been.
All had minor leaks which only showed up now and again. Changed the lot and not had a problem since…..
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Sounds like a design flaw. The plane where I had the front tire go flat was a Piper Warrior II.
Perhaps a better designed cowling would help keep the nose wheel better oriented upon landing???
It was a club plane, but you had to be a fully certified pilot to join. No students, and most people flew the Cessnas. I learned to fly elsewhere on Tomahawks, then Warriors, so I was one of the few that used the Warrior on a regular basis.
I think I knew how to make decent landings by then…
P.S., I learned to fly in California, where planes bake in the sun at least nine or ten months out of twelve.
Perhaps a better designed cowling would help keep the nose wheel better oriented upon landing???
It was a club plane, but you had to be a fully certified pilot to join. No students, and most people flew the Cessnas. I learned to fly elsewhere on Tomahawks, then Warriors, so I was one of the few that used the Warrior on a regular basis.
I think I knew how to make decent landings by then…
P.S., I learned to fly in California, where planes bake in the sun at least nine or ten months out of twelve.
Bob!
We had exactly this problem about 3 years ago, as did other operators at our airfield (including our CAMO that had about 5 a/c at the time). All were eventually changed for expensive but top quality tubes and tyres, including our most fabulous Tomahawk (it really is exceptional).
Normal service was resumed instantly.
We had exactly this problem about 3 years ago, as did other operators at our airfield (including our CAMO that had about 5 a/c at the time). All were eventually changed for expensive but top quality tubes and tyres, including our most fabulous Tomahawk (it really is exceptional).
Normal service was resumed instantly.
The yellow metal valve caps act as a secondary seal if the valves themselves are leaking. Plastic caps only keep the dust out.
I remember from a long time back that some cheap inner tubes weren't up to the job. I can't remember the country of origin.
I remember from a long time back that some cheap inner tubes weren't up to the job. I can't remember the country of origin.